Kalk, Vinegar question

If I wanted to start using Kalk+vinegar in addition to my 2part. Could I use the stoichiometric amount of vinegar (25ml vinegar/.5 tsp kalk) and then just dilute it further (instead of 1 liter of ro/di, maybe 3 or 4 liters to start) and build up the useage of both the kalk and the vinegar slowly. Or is there some reason I couldn't or shouldn't just water it down further than the regular directions of kalk?


I'm basing my thoughts off this
kalkwasser


Currently I auto-dose BRS Alk, Calc, and Mag. I also add two bacteria strains; Dr. Tims eco-balance weekly and Dr. Tim's Waste Away monthly.

 

You can do Thatgrimguy

but it would be better to store the Kalk / Vinegar solution in the undiluted state for long periods and then dilute it as you need it IMO

if you are just going to mix what you need for a day or 2 then I do not believe this is an issue.

you could make super saturated Kalkwasser which is 2.75 teaspoons per gallon + 45 mils of 5% acetate by volume vinegar

if you made a diluted version and stored it for long periods, then there is the potential for bacterial activity to occur in the storage vessel due to the source of free carbon provided by the vinegar

if you store full strenght Kalkwasser the extremely high PH created prevents bacterial activity in the mix

That way you could mix 1 gallon and store it, and then remove 1 litre and dilute, as you are about to use it

Steve

 

In addition to what Steve said, I may have misunderstood something, but the most kalk and vinegar you could use per gallon of limewater would be about 45ml of vinegar and 3tsp of kalk. So, that would be 25ml vinegar/1.67 tsp kalk/1 gallon RO DI. That would supersaturate the kalk by about 34% I believe.

That said, vinegar is roughly 5% carbon and vodka is 40% (so vinegar is 1/8th the potency). So, as a rough estimate, you could just follow standard vodka dosing instruction, such as this:
Vodka Dosing by 'Genetics' and 'Stony_Corals' - Reefkeeping.com

but multiply the vodka amount by 8. So, if you'd start off with 1ml of vodka, you'd instead use 8ml of vinegar.

 

Ok, from what i understand. You can use more than 25ml, but 25ml to a half tsp is all it takes for a full reaction. Does this sound correct?

Steve, is 2 weeks too long of a period to store it?

 

I mean, this solution of diluted mix would last as long as plain ro di would'nt it?

 

you can store at full strenght indefinitely, ThatGrimGuy

its just in its diluted form that bacteria may find their way into the container and escalate due to the carbon source from the vinegar within

you do not need 25mils per half teaspoon to maximise the calcium potential from the Kalk

the ratio is 45 mils per gallon , and 3 teaspoons of Kalk

so if you wanted to make 1 litre, you could use 12 mils of vinegar and 3/4 of teaspoon of Kalk for full saturation

if you make 1 litre per time and then use a few 100 mils of that diluted into RODI for 1 days use, you would avoid the bacteria forming in solution problem

 

I see. So the additional carbon causes it to populate with bacteria much more quickly...

Maybe with my apex i can automate the process. Maybe have a doser add the saturated mix to a doser then have it filled with ro di use float switches so it happens roughly daily. That way i am just checking equipment..

 

exactly Thatgrimguy
if the solution is kept for a period of 2 weeks and is not the full strenght high PH Kalkwasser mixture, then bacteria may form, and they will populate much faster due to the presence of the vinegar

so making a full strenght solution and then hooking it up to a doser in order a fixed amount is introduced over a 24 hour period is ideal
(if you have a doser on a timer and can make it introduce the saturated Kalk mix at night, that would be even better as that would mean PH swings caused by the high PH of Kalkwasser would at least be partially negated due to the normal nocturnal PH drop in your tank)

if for example your tank parameters would be maintained dosing a half strenght solution or lower, then all you need to do is reduce the amount of the full strenght solution you use

example - if 300 mils of a half strenght solution would suffice, then you only dose 150 mils of full strenght, for exactly the same benefits

 

Ahhhhh i have no idea why i never thought of that! Replacement of top off was never a goal. Just start with a small dose! Funny how obvious solutions seem to fly right by sometimes!

 

So, mixing both what you and M2434 said. I should be able to use the rules layed out in Vodka Dosing by 'Genetics' and 'Stony_Corals' - Reefkeeping.com (multiplied by 8 to compensate for the carbon differences between vodka and vinegar) with the solution I am making with vinegar/kalk up till I reach a point of fulfilling my daily ATO needs right? (from there if i needed more vinegar I would just dose it separately)