Low pH problems

I set up my FOWLR about 14 days ago and at the moment ammonia and nitrite are not registering on the test kits and nitrate is around 3 ppm. I dont have the specific test kits yet, i'm going to shop for those tomorrow if all goes well.

My ph however worries me its 7.6 atm.

Heres what i have in the tank atm.

40lbs bagged live sand, 10 lbs base rock, 10 lbs "cured" live rock.

the only inhabitants that i have are some fast breeding aptaisa anemones and one sea goblin (the reason the tank was set up)

i'm starting to see diatoms growing on the sand that he's not stirring up during his activities. i've never had a low ph problem before but this is my first SW tank on this water supply.

i know most of whats going on now is basic cycling for a tank so i'm more than willing to wait it out. i'll be moving in about a month so i know the tank will be going through this mess all over again. I"m hoping to get another tank set up in advance there and cycled so all i'll have to move is the fish and the rock and then i'll likely turn this tank into a 35 gallon fuge.

i can get macro algae at the lfs reasonably cheap i just dont want to add it too fast. since i only have four polyps of some sort on the rock i'm not worried too much about light competition or anything from the macros i can always move them out of the way.

i hope to get cal and phos test kits soon...any others that i should look for at the lfs, thankfully i do have one that stocks a decent amount of reef supplies so i dont have to haul myself half way across the state to the states best store.

this is my first SW in three years and the first one that i have fish in. i figure if i can keep the water quailty up well enough for inverts then the fish should thrive.

as soon as i get enough post i'll post my fishy up in my avatar we have a couple ok pics of him and we keep tryin to get more .

thanks for the info and patience with a noob.

jason

 

If you are going to be FOWLR you can get by with SeaCehm Labs Marine Buffer. This will keep the pH at 8.3.

Your low pH may be from a number of issue, such as the break in cycle, due to orgaincs still coming form LR. It also may be a high room air CO2, especially that low. Have you tested the Alk and have you added anything to raise the pH. This is gong to keep very deep but do the best you can with these;


Low pH: Causes and Cures by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Indoor CO2 Problems
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/iss...r2002/short.htm

 

Are you using tap water?

 

Start useing r/o water if you are not doing so now.

 

I'll try the aeration test today, i'm trapped at home since the GF has the one functional automobile to do laundry (we filled a subaru with it, mostly hers of course ).

well anyhow i'll do the test on the tank water and see. We live in an apartment with piss poor ventilation at the moment so i'm suspecting the high indoor CO2 to be a problem...though i'd have never thought about that.

I'll get an alkalinity test and a calcium test as soon as i can get back to the LFS.

I was trying hard to budget in a fish that desperately want for FW so i've been beatin the street looking to sell some fish and its not working so its back to reality .

I hope i can get the Ph raised to appropriate levels i think my coraline is starting to suffer.

I'll get back with you guys with the results of the aeration test and the test kit results when i can get the kits.

thank you very much for your help on this.

jason

 

well i took a ph test this morning with out the lights on

7.6-7.8

after two hours of aeration in the apartment atmosphere

7.6-7.8

after two hours aeration on the porch outside of the apartment

8.2-8.4

is that kind of variation normal?

i must have a lot of CO2 built up in the tank i think i'll run the air intake to the HOB skimmer to the slider as a start and then find a way to aerate the tank....good grief i've never ran into anything like this before...

btw i'll start using RO water as soon as the move to the new place is done...

jason

 

No, that is not a normal varation. You have very high indoor CO2 and that is why the pH is so low. You need to get some outdoor air to the tank that will help. Or open a window.

 

yeah i'm working on running a line to the sliding door and sucking some nice air in...this place is a stagnant dump no wondering i dont feel like doing anything (then again i could just be lazy).

should i worry about the Ph rising too fast by getting rid of the Co2 in the tank.

jason

 

Interesting thread. Did you actually move the tank outside to the porch to get that reading?

Is the top of your tank covered with glass?

By the way, RO water tends to be low pH in my experience. You will still need a buffer if you don't use kalk or shoot it through a reactor like I do.

 

should i worry about the Ph rising too fast by getting rid of the Co2 in the tank

No, it is not going to raise that much. Outdoor air will help, it is not a cure all. The room will still have high indoor air CO2. You can look at it this way in lay terms. You have CO2 gas above the tank and CO2 gas in the tank. If the two gas pressures = each other there is no CO2 gas going in the tank or out of the tank. Your CO2 gas pressure in the room is/was very high compared to the CO2 gas pressure in the tank. This causes the CO2 in the room air to diffuse into the tank. At some point they will = each other in time, yesterday, last week tomorrow, etc. it makes not difference. These two CO2 gas pressures are now equal also but will be much higher than normal air. Even if by magic we could remove all the CO2 in the tank, the room air CO2 pressure would just diffuse right back into the tank, lowering the pH.

Someone may suggest aerate the tank more, ah nope, that will just drive in more CO2. Aeration helps in normal air as the tank often has more CO2 gas pressure than the air above it, so CO2 diffuess out of the tank. Some may suggest just buffer the tank, ah nope, almost all buffers yield CO2 , i.e., baking soda, washing soda,etc.

Since it may be hard to remove indoor air CO2 there are only a couple of options such as those suggested in the article on Low pH. For example the addition of limewater/kalk. These "eat" up CO2

Ca(OH)2 ==> Ca++ + 2OH-

2OH- + 2CO2==> 2HCO3- (baking soda with out the sodium, a buffer.)

The issue here for you is you have a tank with little Calcium demands, FOWLR, which may cause the calcium to get high but you can try it. The other option is SeaChem Labs Marine Buffer (8.3 pH), OK for a FOT, FOWLR but NOT a reef tank.

It appears I gave you a bad link on indoor air CO2. It does not work for me, so here it is again. It does not tell you how to fix the problem it shows proof of how indoor air CO2 affects pH

The Effects of Carbon Dioxide On pH
Short Take - Robert Jordan

In regards to Matt's comments

On the glass lid. A tight fitting glass lid can trap CO2 under the lid. This can act the same way as high indoor CO2. He brings up a good point. This with high indoor room air CO2 will/can make low pH even worse.

On RO/DI water. All RO/DI water has a low pH. It may start out with pH of 7 but as soon as it is exposed to any air it will pick up CO2 and drop the pH below 7. It is a myth that it has a high pH. Often you will see people posting high pH's on RO/DI water. This is due to the fact that since there is nothing (ions) in the water for a pH meter or kit to measure pH it gives false readings. So, in short, all RO/DI pH readings are meaningless and are false readings. RO water will give an Ok reading in most cases.

Did you actually move the tank outside to the porch to get that reading?


It sounds like it doesn't it Matt That would be a first heard of.