30 gallon NEWBIE LFS NO HELP! I cant seem to get straight answers! :(

Hello Everyone!

(really sorry for the long post) I am BRAND new to the fish world and am FULLY read on the newbie blogs (mostly) but, I think its mostly confused me a bit more.. so, in order to do things RIGHT the first time and not make any common mistakes... I would like some feedback on a few elementary things I still havent quite figured out!

I went to PETCO (first mistake) and bought a 29 gallon all-in-one deal... Plus + a power head
(PETCO Power Head at PETCO)
black substrate for bottom as well....I bought about 9-10 lbs of live rock from a local aquarium store, salt mix and a bateria solution which I read you put in once a day while its cycling. I did what I think you are NOT supposed to do which is fill it up with tap water+ a water conditioner and then added salt... After the salt was added, I added the black substrate and live rock and let it sit. Once the pump/power head turned on- Everything cleared up after about an hour or so. I check salinity and it seemed a bit high so I took some water out and added distilled until I got a reading of about .23 .24 which is fine. (right?)

A few days later I went to the fish store and was sold 3 damsels, a flame scallop and two emerald crabs. The flame scallop lasted a day. (he just kept getting smaller and smaller and lost his red tentacles) The damsels (after reading blog after blog) I removed. One is hiding in the rocks and I could NOT get him out! The crabs, well they are still there! Eating off the rocks!
I realized a few things as I was doing this and had a few questions. My ultimate goal is to have a seahorse reef aquarium, I am FULLY aware of the time and patience it needs and CARE and JUST want to be sure I am doing things right to get me there in a few months so, here are my questions, now that I have laid down the history!

Bare with me, they may be *duh* questions to most but, everyone had to start somewhere!

1. The live rock about 15lbs I have put in my tank comes from two different places-I also started reading AFTER I put it in the tank that it should be Cured. What exactly is Curing and now that its all been in there for about 2 weeks, does it matter at this point? I have about four Large pieces, some has what looks like brown alage some has what looks like green algae, is this normal? My tank has no algae but, my emerald crabs legs seem to be covered!
2. Should I worry about a sump or a protein skimmer? Which one is more important for my final result? (the sump seems overly complicated) the skimmer seems to be a bit easier to install? Are they BOTH neccesary-thoughts? IF SO-Where to start!!!! Which prtein skimmer for my 30 gallon tank!
3. I was told to leave my water running with filter and all for one month then do a 10 gallon water change after it cyles- How do I know when its done cycling? Wouldnt a water change Take away beneficial bacteria? How should I mix the salt for the water change and which salt should I use-Do I do the mix with distilled water? Or can I use tap water and use conditioner and then salt mix? HELP!
4. On the power head there is a long white tube. When you twist the tube open the current get stronger - should I have it at maximum capacity or somewhere in between? should this tube be inside the water or outside the water? OR should this be a part of something else I am missing? Any info would be so much help!
5. My water temp fluctuates dramatically- I think the heat outside sometimes gets too hit for the house and I cant seem to get it under control! Is there an automatic heater/cooler? How costly is this?
6. Is the simple carbon filter/powerhead sufficent for the reef seahorse setup I want? (once I change the light)
THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME!

 

first off, welcome to 3reef!

I'll do some quick fire advice points:

- it's ok that you mixed the salt and water in the tank as it was empty so that's fine. All mixing should now be done outside the tank whenever you do a water change. If you must use tap water than de-chlorinate it and mix the WC in a 5g or larger bucket/container with an extra powerhead & heater. You want to match your tank's temp & salinity as best as possible. Use a 1/2 cup of salt per gallon of water to get a target salinity of 1.025

- unless you wanted to cycle your tank with damsels (not a fan of, as they are tough to get out & may become territorial to any new more docile additions), you should have waited before buying any fish or inverts. The LFS wants to sell things so they are not always the best source of info. You need to get a basic API Saltwater test kit that tests for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, & PH. As your tank cycles you will notice a spike in your Ammonia & Nitrite. Once those two params read 0 and you start registering some Nitrate, your tank is cycled. You will want your PH around 8.0-8.2 if you can. If it's under that, it's not a big deal as long as it stays consistent & stable in the higher 7 end.

- your current livestock may have survived the cycle or they may be going through it right now, not sure, you'll have to test to see if it's complete. It's also possible they will all die due to the high AM/NI if it's not complete.

- If you bought your Live Rock "live" it should be cured already, unless it was out of water for a period of time. The LR helps cycle your tank so if it's good quality rock you are fine. The algae may be what's called diatoms, which is a normal rite of passage for new SW tanks. It should go away on it's own. It may also be caused by really bad quality tap water you are using that contains lots of TDS (total dissolved solids). The reason many SW keepers use pure water (RO/DI) is so we don't have to wonder what we're putting into our tanks. You can get by with tap water but you may be in for issues down the line with phosphates, algae, etc.

- invest in a sump or protein skimmer if you can. You could get a hang on back skimmer like a AquaC Remora, Octopus, Bermuda Rogue, Deltec. It will run you a few hundred or so or find one used. You could run a tank sump-less, as I run my 55g reef, but you will def need a skimmer at the very least.

- get a heater, a jaeger or a visi-therm stealth, something, you need a heater definitely, temp fluctuations are not good for your live stock, it will kill them. Try to keep your temp consistently between 76-80.

- I'm not sure on your powerhead as I don't know what brand it is, a good rule of SW circulation is 10x the capacity of the tank so if you have a 30g tank you want 300gph circulating it. I suggest a Koralia evolution powerhead, they are nice, I have two for my tank.

- SW keeping will cost you if you want to do it right. Don't skimp on the quality equipment in the beginning, you will def pay for it later. Look locally for used equipment if you don't have the funds but you get what you put into this hobby.

- I have never tried a seahorse tank, have heard they aren't extremely easy to take care of. I would suggest first getting experienced in SW keeping and then attempt something of that difficulty. Liken it to wanting a ferrari the day after you get your license.

best of luck,

 

lol, THANK YOU! I loved the ferrari comparrison! I know I cant have them straight away but, eventually, thats my goal! I will of course start small and HOPE that damsel dies so I have no issues later. Theres too much rock right now to get her out That answers alot. Thanks for the advice! I am going to go ahead and put it all to good use! I am going to go ahead and invest in the protein skimmer, will that and the current carbon filter be sufficent? (keeping in mind my end result would be 2-3 fish and mostly reef)

I am SO GLAD you mentioned heating the water up BEFORE it goes in the tank for large water changes!!! I honestly, hadnt even though about it. Does this also work for topping off evaporated water? I am having an issue with my water temp simply because the temp. Of the room varies so greatly! IS there something that can be done that consistently regulates your tank temp automatically? I also want to know if the current power head I have, should I crank it to the maximum flow rate? It seems to give off TONS of bubbles when I do but am not sure if thats normal? I also have it on the back of the tank, should I put it to one side? Top-Bottom? How long should I leave it w/o adding ANYTHING?

THANK YOU!

 

I agree with what was said above, though you may want to post which all in one 29 gallon tank you have purchased. A hang on the back protein skimmer may not work for what you have. There are a few options for them so let us know which you have.

GL and take it slow, nothing good comes in the hobby from rushing.

 

any aquarium heater will regulate the temp of the tank. You set it to the desired temp and if it drops below this, it will turn on, if it exceeds this in very hot months, it's best to have AC to keep your tank below the 83 mark.

Investing in a good protein skimmer is def a good thing, like ultra mentioned, not sure what system you bought and if it is an all-in-one that includes something of a skimmer.

I would not use the carbon filter, in SW keeping those types of filters will just trap junk & end up fouling your system by spiking your Nitrate. If you get a good protein skimmer you will not need to worry about a filter.

I run my 55g reef with just 70lbs live rock, a hang-on-back skimmer, 300w heater, a phosphate reactor, & two powerheads. I also dose Alk/Ca/Mg bi-weekly & do 5g water changes every week, it's best to be doing 50% per month of the tanks capacity.

FYI, you will want to top off your tank with freshwater, not saltwater, just in case you were wondering. I would try to use distilled if you can't get ro/di water when you do wc & top-offs.

I saw you mentioned going "reef", my advice is to start with a FOWLR tank (Fish Only With Live Rock). Once you get the basics down, then you can move towards a reef slowly. You can start with easy corals and then move forward as you feel more experienced. If you truly want a healthy reef you will have to invest in a RO/DI unit to make pure water & most likely a reactor to run media like phosphate remover & carbon. You will also need to buy test kits for extended params: Alkalinity, Calcium, Magnesium, & Phosphate. And begin to dose your tank with Alk/Ca/Mg supplements to get the levels right for a reef. It's daunting at first but gets much easier as you get a handle on things.

Don't be afraid to ask anything here at 3reef, we'll do our best to help you if we can, we all had to start at the beginning ourselves.

 

Damsels are territorial but no one wants to see one die just for convenience. They are not so bad if the fish you add are larger than they are. They will attempt to be the boss for an hour or so then give up if they are not getting their way. I have added several fish to my tank since I got the 3 damsels. Never a problem after the first hour.

As for water, you can buy RO/DI water from your LFS, (local fish store) or use distilled as suggested but a better way to go if you have the $ is your own RO/DI system. You won't need to go to the LFS every week which will cost you more $ as you will always find something else to buy while waiting for your jugs to be filled.

I mix my water and leave to circulate overnight in a spare tank before adding it to my tank, someone told me that several years ago, don't know if there is a scientific reason for it but I find the water to be clearer after 10 hours. You have been given good advise about if your tank gets cold, here in the desert I do not need a heater at all. If your tank gets warm then you need to control that as well. One option is to have a fan blowing across the top of the open tank. This will cause more evaporation but will help keep temps down. The other option if leaving the lid off you tank is not a good idea is a small chiller, in my part of the county it is required. They are not cheap and requires another pump to circulate the water which will contribute to more heat in the tank but the chiller will handle it just fine. If the heat is not bad enough to require a chiller you could use frozen soda bottles every morning. Not the best long term solution but I used it 2 weeks ago when my chiller died and it took 2 days to get a new one.
You need to get a test kit before you go any further, you can not make good decisions if you do not know for sure what your levels are. When you ask questions here the first question you will get is what your levels are. It is the basis for answers that will improve your situation. I use the API brand as it is the most affordable one I know of. Do not get talked into test strips, they are almost worthless, guessing is almost as good... Since the LFS chose to sell you a scallop and two emerald crabs right off I would look for another store. As suggested earlier, they stay in business by selling products even if you do not need them. A good store will guide you in the right direction from the start with the idea you will return and spend more $ with them.
It is good you asked questions here, too bad you didn't find the site before going to the store the first time.
Good luck, I hope this post gives you information you can use...

 

good luck

 

dont do seahorses. im just now after 15 months in the hobby (and this may be too soon) i may know just enough to get me by with pipefish (and im not thinking that i will come out on top with them.)

ill be very frank with you with your tank nad compatibility to seahorses.

1. the size of your tank is ok.
2. YOU WILL NOT GET TO THE POINT WHERE YOU CAN GET THEM IN JUST A COUPLE MONTHS. you tank needs to mature before you attempt. mines been setup for 5 months, and im gonna wait a couple more before i order the pipes (very similar in care to horses).
3. they need to be fed 2-3 times daily. and they can be pigs!
4. they need colder water then the normal reed tank 65-74 degrees
5. other fish are not compatible with them, the are very slow eaters.
6. and corals that can sting are not compatible with them (LPS) and those corals are usually the prettier ones
7. no anemones with seahorses

the good youve done so far:
got the corect tank size
taken back 2 of three damsels
ordering a protein skimmer

plain and simple, you need more experience. i bet you can do it, just not in a few months. but, id be happy to bite my words as long as you do it right.

 

You've been given some good advice so far, especially by Peredhill, another good post. First, damsels aren't necessarily bad. I hate when people just say that any damsel will terrorize your tank so you need to get it out. That is completely not true. Some damsels are meaner then others but many other fish can be just as mean. I cycled with a yellow tailed damsel and he's one of my favorite fish and hasn't bothered anybody.

Second, for now, forget about seahorses. To be blunt, you've demonstrated by your actions and phrasing that your're not ready for them by far. I don't want to discourage you as it's a good goal to have, but you need much more experience keeping a salt water tank going and keeping a reef alive before you begin with sea horses, they should only be housed by the most experienced hobbyists, are extremely fragile and require certain conditions best left for a species only tank, not a reef tank.

Third, you have made some mistakes, but all have. It's good that you've come here. You also need to slow down a bit. Read and research things, buy a good salt water beginner book. Read articles and ask questions. Some LFS are great, others are only there to make money. Don't take their word as truth. Good luck with your tank and I look forward to answering more of your questions.

 

Wow! Thank you! I re-read my post and realized how much I DONT KNOW. I have completely changed my thoughts on "seahorse reef" aquarium. I will try to work with fish until I am 100% oriented with my SW tank. Thank you everyone. I obviously know nothing and need to get a few things together before I add anything else. All I have in there is a yellow tailed damsel (thank you guitar man, that gives me hope he wont be aggresive torward the future), hopefully everyone survives (emerald crabs included) and I can begin to add some more inhabitants in a few months!