75g w/ 33g frag tank system

This is my understanding:

They are protogynous hermaphrodites but I'm not sure if that's mutually exclusive with bi-directional hermaphroditism. AFAIK protogynous just means they start out as females and the second stage is to become a male, bi-directional means they can revert. But protandous (start out as males like clowns) hermaphrodites could be bi-directional too (not like clowns of course), I think.
I believe some protogynous species can also be bi-directional. According to Scott Michael's wrasse book Cirrhilabrus wrasses are protogynous and bi-directional, if I read it correctly, which I admit I very well might not have. It's confusing the way the book is phrased, or was confusing to me. I just read it at an LFS today, I don't own it so I can't provide exact phrasing ATM.

 

Hmmm interesting. I know that C. ferrugata (Rusty Angelfish) was once believed to be strictly protogynous and not capable of bi-directional sex change. Later a male was observed actually switching back to female! It's not currently known if all species of centropyge are capable of this...(maybe a project for me in the future.) According to my book SOME wrasse species are capable of bi-directional change but it doesn't state which ones..Good luck!

 

Yeah exactly, even if it hasn't been documented yet, who knows what might happen? I'm not counting on it though.
That vague phrase "some species" is what I've seen all over the place as well.

Thanks for taking the time to at least think about it.

Both of the active fish ate a little bit already today and I noticed the larger one being slightly aggressive, some little charges etc but I don't know if that's normal for these fish when they're new to a tank.
The slightly more timid one is thoroughly hiding now and the larger one has been patrolling all around the rocks all puffed and flared up. I'm not liking how that sounds, but maybe I'm misinterpreting the behavior.

Good news (I think) though, I just checked and the one in rough shape is no longer gasping in the corner, it appears to have moved elsewhere in the tank, so at least it managed to get up, and not get stuck to a powerhead or something. Hopefully that's a good sign that it's recovering from shipping although that also means I may have 3 active males in the tank soon!

 

OK, that good news was short lived. I just turned up the vortech on the tank for a second to realign it after the stupid thing disconnected and a dead McCoskers came flying out of the rock, so I guess it just had enough energy to make it into the rocks to die, poor guy.

 

Well I heard back from reefhotspot regarding this whole fiasco. They explained that their listing was intended to include both females and non-terminal males. They have a separate listing for terminal males that cost more money. So you can specify the terminal male but nothing else, if you choose the "female/subadult" listing you just get a crap shoot of what you're going to get.

Obviously I feel like a little misled, especially when they pair the "female/subadult" description with a picture of a female, and the fact that all females can be subadults since all of these fish are born female. Am I being unreasonable?

I'm usually a pretty "buyer beware" person but this time they got me.
What would you think?


On another note, I sent them a picture of the (basically) DOA wrasse and hopefully they'll accept that and give me store credit for that one at least.

Looks like it's time to find someone around here that wants a male McCosker's wrasse, maybe both of them since I don't want to add a male to the new display tank until I have females ready to go in at the same time. Who knows when I'm going to find some females so I might try and put another fish or two through quarantine in the meantime. Stocking this tank is taking forever but I want to do it right and quarantine everything and get the fish I want, not just whatever I happen across at the store.

 

Found a second dead wrasse this morning, 2/3 so far.

 

oh boy....

I have no doubt youve documented that one as well and will be pressing the supplier for a resolution.

The losses are definitely unfortunate but all things happen for a reason - i am hoping it will be a positive one when this all sorts itself out.

Regardless a loss is a loss and no one wants that. Perhaps you will be able to turn this misfortune into a good result though - it seems your leverage is increasing a bit with the supplier albeit for an unfortunate reason.

Hang in there - we will all stay tuned here in the meantime.

 

Yeah I sent them a picture of both fish and am hoping they honor their 14 day live guarantee.
Also, to be clear I don't think they intentionally misled me or anything, and I do accept that there is risk associated with shipping fish so I'm not blaming them for that or anything, although I feel their packaging could have been better, especially shipping to MN in the winter.

I suggested they clarify their listing on their website and am asking for store credit for the two dead fish at this point. I probably won't order more fish from them though, if I do get the store credit I will probably get a coral or something that might ship better.

 

This is why the only online vendor I will deal with is Dr Foster and Smith specifically Divers Den. They simply always deliver quality, healthy fish and great packaging too...

 

Yeah I would have preferred to go through them but they don't seem to have females available ever. I've been checking every single day almost for months. I called them today and they don't have a way to special order fish either, they just have a "request to stock" through Diver's Den but there is no guarantee even if they put them up there that I'll be the one who gets them because they just post them to DD and whoever gets them gets them. I imagine it might be more difficult for such a big operation to do requests/special orders so I understand, but it's unfortunate because I really liked the first shipment I got from them.

I actually emailed Blue Zoo Aquatics and Vivid Aquariums today asking about females. BZA said actually the reason they were always out is because they usually have a waiting list of special orders for people wanting females so they only rarely even make it to the website. They said it could take a few weeks to get to my order if I were to get in line.

I emailed a bit with Shaun at Vivid today as well and he said females should be no problem so I put in my order today and hopefully will be getting them early next week! They are the same price as BZA and I'm a huge fan of their live guarantee policy as well because they actually offer a full refund (minus the shipping of course) rather than store credit which is awesome. I've heard lots of good things about Vivid as well so hopefully everything works out this time around!