bio wheel or no bio wheel

^^+1 with emphasis on wise not old

 

I understand to culture it, but once you have an established biological filter going (with live rock), wouldn't the biowheel just be a place for nitrate to build up?

 

How would nitrates build up on a biowheel??

 

well, I just think they would lol

 

I agree with it being a flawed theory but believe in it none the less. (Biowheels being a nitrate factory) Really ANY filter is a nitrate filter if not cleaned routinly.

I think the thought is the biowheels only harbor aerobic bacteria, no anaerobic bacteria can survive on them. That is basicaly their purpose after all, to harbor and culture AEROBIC bacteria to reduce ammonia to nitrites and nitrites to nitrates. The problem there is the nitrates can not be broken down to nitrogen bubbles and you need a seperate aneorbic culture to have that happen. Our live rock and sandbeds provide that but also provide a good place for the aerobic bacteria making a biowheel kind of unneccassary.

I believe the problem and myths are spread because with the biowheel you can handle more ammonia and nitrite than with live rock alone. Without a fuge or some sort of nitrate reduction though you can not handle any extra nitrates than your liverock and sand would be able to otherwise handle. You test and see your ammonia and nitrite are ok so you add more fish and more fish and more fish and become stocked to the point that you have enough filtration for the ammonia and nitrite because of the live rock, sand, and biowheel, but NOT enough filtration for the nitrate.

Basically making things super simple and not looking at variables such as skimmers, fuge, etc etc, lets say your tank with liverock and sand can handle 5 fish for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. You add your penguin biowheel and after cultures grow you can now handle 10 fish for ammonia and nitrite because of how awesome these cultures wheels are at growing aerobic bacteria!!! However, without adding some chaeto in a fuge, a good skimmer, or mroe liverock, you can still handle only 5 fish and have your liverock break down your nitrates at a rate at which they are productec by the cycle. If you stock up to 10fish, your nitrates will slowly climb until you either remove fish, add anerobic cultures of some sort, or find some other way of nitrate removal. You beat your head agaisnt the wall as you do countless waterchanges and it seems your nitrates drop but are back to where you started within 24 hours because your liverock is leeching them back into your system from beign exposed to high nitrates for so long.


Sorry to be long winded and I may be off about the fact that this is where the biowheel nitrate myth started. But basically like everything else you need to do things in balance and no 2 tanks are the same. A biowheel will suffice and a HOB skimmer is great for mechanial and chemical filtration. With a biowheel it becomes a GREAT place for biological filtration as well. The problem is they are SOOO great at 2/3 of the process that many reefers probably overstocked their tanks without adding any extra nitrate removal to balance the ammonia and nitrite removal and thus the biowheels are nitrate factory myth was born!!

 

Denitrification can occur in oxygenated areas. Steve Wright sent me a study maybe he will chime in here. It showed denitrifing biofilm all over the system.Not just anaerobic zones.

 

Removing the waste before conversion is easy in an hob.Having the biowheel in close proximity of the waste is good as well.I am not saying biowheels are necessary just that they do in fact work ime.

Nitrates don't just appear out of thin air.

 

I would love to read that article!! I always read an believed the need for anaerobic zones for the nitrate to nitrogen gas part of the cycle. We just dont think much of it sicne nitrates we always considered harmless (topic for another debate). Freshwater has very few anaerobic zones and that why FW keepers need many plants or frequent waterchanges to deal with nitrates where saltwater and loverock so a much better job at the nitrate removal.

Seachem makes products such as de-nitrate that have many small pores to hld anerobic bacteria and break down nitrates that otherwise could not be broken down!!

From their website,

"denitrate™ is an economical, natural, porous material with a pore distribution and geometry that promotes both aerobic nitrification within the first few millimeters of depth and anaerobic denitrification at the core. The material has a high surface area and supports a high density of bacteria. Although de nitrate™ has capacity to trap nitrate, this, as with other nitrate retaining materials, such as certain zeolites and synthetic resins, is quite limited and the primary mechanism of nitrate removal is anaerobic"

Basically a liverock mimicing product, once again from their website,

"Live” rocks or reef rocks remove nitrate by anaerobic denitrification. de nitrate™ removes nitrate by the same process. Efficiency is magnified several folds by forcing the water to filter through the porous de nitrate™. As with reef rock, anaerobic conditions are achieved by the porosity and the depletion of oxygen by the aerobic process at the surface. Excessive flow rates should, therefore, be avoided, as they may impede development of an adequate anaerobic environment to support denitrifying bacteria.
de nitrate™ is also an excellent media for aerobic nitrification and it makes an ideal biological filter in drip trays, canister filters, sumps, or even box filters. At high flow rates (greater than 100 US gallons per hour), it will function solely as an aerobic filter. At slow flow rates (less than 50 US gallons per hour), it will function as both an aerobic filter and an anaerobic denitrifying filter."


If what you are saying is true, than their whole product is a scam!! I will say it is possible because I used it in FW with no reduction in nitrates what so ever!!! I think sicne its a bunch of small rocks it also functions like crushed coral and holds too much debris making it a nitrate trap as well as a reducer at the same time lol

 

I think I asked him for it not too long ago and he couldn't fiond it and I am kicking myself for not saving it.Very interesting. Think of nitrate as red paint and considser how long it would take you to totally rid the tank of 1 pint of it with partial wc's. Another reason why I preach low bioloads. Its not just because I think they need more room (they do lol). There is a method to my madness.;D

 

Totally agree a low bioload is the way to go!! I rather keep what my system an handle via natural means rather than stock to what my equipment can handle.