Canisters, PowerHeads and live Rock

Lots of Questions! Filters, Liverock, Cycling, RO units. The whole thing...

Hi everyone. All my experience is with FreshWater, particularly African Cichlids. I am just starting up a 90 Gal Salt Mixed Reef tank. Best of everything I guess? I want a little bit of each, so some fish, and some coral.

Im getting the tank, protien skimmer, Live Rock and MH lights from a relative.

I currently have a Fluval 404 that is somewhat used a bit. I need to replace a few things on it including the hose. The unit is probably 6-7 years old now and I am thinking I dont feel like tinkering to make it work anymore or keep putting money into it. I was going to go with clear tubing but it bends to much and im scared if I dont connect everything just right Ill come home to 90 Gallons of water on my new flooring, and some dried up corals and fish. So I figure maybe new tank means new filter... I really wanted to keep my costs down and reuse the fluval, but maybe enoughs enough and I should just get a new one.

I am considering replacing the unit with an Eheim or a Filstar.

I will not have a sump. Would an Eheim 2215 be ok, or the 2236, or would you go Filstar XP2 or XP3? I don't have the cash to spend on an XP4 or somthing. Ill probbaly get a second filter eventually, but for now it will just be the one. I wont have a ton of fish/coral in the aquarium anyway to begin with.


The second question is Powerheads. Someone told me that you should have 10x your tank gallon in gph for power heads is this true? I was going to go with two Hydor 600 GPH powerheards. However someone I know runs a 150 Gallon, and they have 2 x 1200 GPH. So Im not entirely sure how heavy a powerhead I should go.

I put a Hydor #2 (600 gph) in my 55 gal today and it seems like theres barely any flow at all if you put your hand like 7 -8 inches in front. So I was thinking of going with 2 x #3 Hydors?


3.) Live Rock - I am keeping all the liverock for this 90 gallon temporarily in a 55Gallon until the room I am putting the 90 in is renovated. I am going to run a power head and the filter in the 55 until I can move everything over. Does Live Rock need Light to live? Its in my basement with no windows, so I am wondering if it will die without light? The liverock will sit in there for 3-4 weeks before it gets moved to its 90 gall home.


Thoughts?

Really appreciate the information. thanks!

Thanks.

 

WELCOME TO 3reef!

I highly do not recommend a canister at all for any type of saltwater setup. If you are running a skimmer that should be enough.

The hard part about canisters on salt is the biological filter will build up in them. If you take it apart and clean it you are upsetting your biological filter. Which could cause what some believe is a mini cycle. Ehh i dont believe in mini cycles but it will raise your ammonia and the biological filter in your rock will have to catch up. Just way too much hassle for nothing IMO.

If you are running a good skimmer, have good enough flow, and have enough rock.. i say screw the canister filter. Put the money you were going to spend on it on a better skimmer.

 

Ok, first of all the filter. I would not run a caister filter at all. The live rock is going to handle most of your filtration and the skimmer will be icing on the cake. Canister filters can cause some really bad nitrate problems if they're not very well maintained.

Now for the flow question. The more flow the better. For soft corals 10x turnover will be a good jumping off point but they will do better with even more flow. You want to have good flow to get the water moving through the rock and keep any detritus suspended in the water for the skimmer to pick up. If you plan on keeping SPS in your tank you will need at least 50x turnover.

Last question. Live rock does not need light to live. As long as it has good flow and you keep on top of water quality it will be just fine.

 

Wow,

Thanks for the replies, and so fast. Ill be posting here more. I've tryed a few other forums earliar today and noone has replied yet.

So you guys really think ditch the canister all together? LiveRock will filter out all the stuff, or I take it with a high enough GPH a good protein skimmer will do the job?

What Protien skimmers do you guys recommend? I am not sure which one I am getting with the tank I will know when it comes next Sunday.

And then you say a high Turnover like 50x? Wont that disturb the coral a lot? I was considering just using the canister with a foam in it, no biomedia etc.

Two unknowns right now are I dont know the model of skimmer that I get with the 90 and I am unsure just how much live rock there is.

 

The rock will definitely do a better job than a canister. Even running it with just foam in it could cause problems. The issue is detritus builds up fast on the filter media and starts to produce nitrates.

The amount of flow you need really depends more on what type of coral you would like to keep. I would not start with SPS right away so you won't need 50x right away. Try to get at least 20x to start and add more if you notice dead spots where food or detritus is settling on the sand.

As for skimmer I only have experience with Coralife and love it. I do however hear better reviews about AquaC skimmers.

One more note. I assume your getting this tank used. Do not use the sand that comes with it. Buy new sand and save a huge list of problems.

 

The key to salt is the biological filter, not actual mechanic filtration. Thats why you have to cycle a tank. If you dont know about cycles, please ask questions lol. You have to get the biological filter going. Pretty much a bacteria that lives in the rock.
Going from fresh to salt is hard, b/c its generally the opposite on most things IMO.

If you are going softies you dont need 50x flow. If you are a beginner, i recommend softies, lps, and some easy sps like montipora or something. So you wont need that much flow.

Skimmers for a 90, depends, will you be running a sump? how much skimmer size? etc... plus you wont run your skimmer while your cycling.. which takes a few weeks.. so we got a bit to figure it out on skimmer

 

Yikes... ok I'll need some help if you guys are willing to give .

So heres the story, I pick upt he 90 gallon this weekend. It has live rock in it right now. Hitch is the room I am putting the 90 gallon in is not ready. So I have filled up my 55 gallon with fresh water, used Prime Dechlorinator in it, and will add salt tomorrow. Ill put in one power head for now I guess. This 55 gal is the temp tank for the live rock until I move the 90 gal in to my new room.

Now, as I mentioned I am picking up the 90 gal this weekend. Its a 5 hour drive away. So I am going down, bringing everything back up with me. I will transport the live rock in a rubbermaid with a wet towel on top. When I get home I am going to put the live rock directly in the 55 gal temp tank where it will remain for 3-4 weeks. The 90 Gal will sit empty.

After the room is ready, I plan on setting upt he 90 gal, filling it with fresh water, dechlorinate, heat, add salt. Then move the live rock over?

I dont know the cycling I should follow though, can you guys help me with this? I assume I wont be cycling the temp 55 gal but will be cycling the 90 when its setup right?

As for substrate I will be picking up some live sand.

I will NOT be running a sump as the tank is not setup for it, thats why I was considering a canister filter. However I have heard of what you guys are sayin in that you may not need a canister so im cool with trying without.

I dont know what coral I will be going with. I really dont know all the different types. However I like most so Ill be happy with whatever really. Just something to get me started I guess. I assume ill be starting with Fish and no coral for some time correct?

As for the protien skimmer I dont know what it is yet, ill find out on Sunday, or if I can ill call down and ask what the model is. If its not sufficient maybe ill buy a new protien skimmer instead of a canister filter?

Feed me your knowledge I am all ears/eyes normally I would be doing a bunch of research before I get into something like this. The hitch is I only have this weekend coming up to pick it up so I kind of need a helping hand. Everything is appreciated.

Thanks guys.

 

First thing to buy.. a full test kit...

Moving the rock etc around.. will make it harder probably for the cycle. So you will have some of his rock, new sand, some of your own rock, etc.

Well essentially put everything in the tank... sand, all your rock, all of his rock. Get it setup the way you want. Make sure your salt level is good...

Now you need something to die and break down.. to get the cycle started..

I personaly would use table shrimp, like what you eat from the supermarket.

You will test it, within a day or two you should see the ammonia spike.. then nitrites.. then nitrates..

It will take a few weeks for these to fall off.. once it falls off.. you are cycled and ready.

Then you can hookup your skimmer, so on.

You can add coral from the start, the key is you dont want to add a bunch of things at once. Coral or fish. You just started your biological filter so it is still a little weak. Once you add a fish, it will poop eat etc and your biological filter will grow to keep up.

LOL.. lot of info in one post.. keep on asking if you have more questions.. we love to answer.. as hobbyist and enthusiasts we love to see new people learn and do it right.. than kill $500 worth of coral and fish.

 

Ohh yeah.. and dont worry about the skimmer.. will be weeks after you get the tank before you will set it up. Have to get the cycle out of the way first. So just let us know what it is when you pick it up.

 

Thanks for the info. just for clarification I dont have any liverock myself. I am picking up all of hers this weekend which is going into the 55 gal temp tank I setup tonight. my 55 gal is empty at the moment.

So that temp 55 gal tank, should I even bother cycling it? Or just leave it alone when I put the live rock in it. The rock is being moved to the 90 in 3-4 weeks anyway.

The live rock shouldnt die on me in that temp tank shoudl it? I wont have anything else in ther at all, no fish or coral just live rock... do I just let it sit?

cycling the 90 sounds simple enough, I get the idea behind it.

Now for the protien skimmer, what would be recommened for a 90 gallon? Is the idea behind this to use power heads to move the dietirus off the ground and in to suspension so the protien skimmer picks it up? Will that protien skimmer really be able to pick up all the fish waste?

Also your saying im only going to have power heads and a heater in the tank at first as well right? Nothing else for equipment? What do you recommend for power heads then and how many? I was going to go witht he Hydor ones as I bought one today a #2 but I dont think its powerfull enough.