Dead Nemo - RAAAAAAGE!!!

Discussion in 'ASAP' started by Coltonis, Mar 8, 2011.

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  1. Coltonis

    Coltonis Plankton

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    Ok, these freaking sea creatures are officially stressing me out!

    My girlfriend just called me (I'm at work) to inform me that one of my two Ocellaris Clowns was down for the count :cry: (laying motionless on side in middle of sand - no gill movement) and I got no clue what in tarnation is going on in there anymore...

    Let me rattle off some specs here for you:

    Tank: Acryllic Hexagon ~35 gal. w/ ~ 5 gal sump

    Light: 75 watt Metal Halide (6500K)
    Photo Period: Auto Timer 12hr on/12hr off

    Filtration Flow: (3/4" line everywhere) Tank --> CPR CS50 Overflow Box + Aqualifter --> Filter pad over drip plate (the bulk blue/white stuff) --> Bio-balls --> Sump --> Taam Rio+ 2500 Powerhead UL --> ~5.5ft almost straight up --> Tank

    Skimmer: Aquatic Life 115 sitting in sump (not the most effective, but for $45 its better than nothing)

    Denitrification Coil: Made out of ABS tube with ~50ft of 1/4" black sprinkler line coiled inside and like three bio-balls for anaerobic bacteria surface area. Flow is tapped off of the return line of the pump - slight trickle dialed in via a ball valve

    Heater: Marineland Stealth Pro Shatter Proof Heater 100 watt

    Live Rock: I'd guesstimate at least 50 lbs, maybe more... The "Fiji" stuff from my LFS

    Sandbed: Aragonite Reef Sand ~4" deep give or take (Nature's Ocean brand, I think)

    Ventilation: 2x 80mm Weatherproof computer case fans blowing directly onto water surface, air then vents away from water through the tank-top's cut out for the overflow box. Run them all the time in the summer and either not at all or only when the light is on during the winter.

    Water Source: Good old fashioned Arizona tap water ran through a Spectra Pure CS-PROPLUS-90 RO/DI system using 0.5 micron sediment filter/0.5 micron carbon block/90gpd Standard RO Membrane/SilicaBuster™ Mixed-Bed Multi-Layer Deionization Cartridge -- Replaced pre-filter, carbon block, and DI cartridge around the end of January because the ouput TDS started to read something, has been 0 TDS since then.

    Salt Mix: Been using InstantOcean from from the get go.

    Chemicals:
    I log the readings in an excel spreadsheet that is saved on my laptop, but that is at home. Its got chemical readings all the way back to day one. I can post it if you guys want to see, but they have been very consistent for quite a while now, off the top of my head the readings I took two weeks ago were something like:

    Salinity: 1.022
    Temp: 75.5F

    Ammonia: 0
    Nitrite: 0
    Nitrate: 0
    ph: 8.2
    Phos: 0
    dKH: 7
    Calcium: 340 (17 drips)

    Local Wild Life(Up until the past two weeks atleast):

    2x tank bread Ocellaris Clowns *YES- I named them Marlin and Nemo; it was obligatory, he has a "lucky" tail-fin and everything... (RIP Marlin :cry: )

    1x Scarlet Legged Hermit Crab (RIP Master Roshi :cry: )

    1x Peppermint Shrimp (Scampi)

    2x Mexican Cerith Snails (Started as a trio, but Master Roshi got cramped)

    3x Red Banded Trochus Snail

    And at least 1x Hitch-hiking pistol shrimp that I hear every time I turn out the lights, but to this day have never seen. Closest I ever saw was small amounts of sand getting shoveled out of a hole in the side of his rock. (There could be 5 in that rock for all I know :-/ )

    The Scenario: Tank has been up and running for ~2yrs now (I'll have to check my spreadsheet for exact dates) so its not a particularly new tank. Went through the full cycle with just some snails and the LR hitchickers - Nitrates, Diatoms, Red Cyano, Red Bubble Algae, all finally subsided and got to the point where some really nice Pink/Green/Red Coraline Algae was growing and chems seemed stable. So I slowly started adding critters, I did lose a couple peppermint shrimp along the way, but people were saying they weren't the hardiest and the one that is still in there seems to be doing well despite the couple of Aiptasia that he doesn't seem to care about. Nemo's were doing swimming-ly. I started noticing little bits of Green Hair Algae here and there, but nothing horrendous. However sometime during this last summer, with the warmer tank temps (stays around 78-80F) I started seeing what my best guess is a cyano algae, but instead of red it was a deep christmas tree green. It wasn't bad at first, but started spreading.(I know a nickle for every time right... ::) ) It didn't turn into the stringy sheets like the red stuff either it stayed close to the rock/sand like more of a film. When I noticed it spreading I started vacuuming it off the rocks with a siphon tube but it was a PITA to get off the sand. Touching it just causes it to sort of crumble up and get rolled into the sand.

    Ok so the green cyano showed up slowly, but surely despite my removal efforts and then about a month ago this other algae stuff just exploded. I thought it was GHA at first, but the more I experience it the less I think it is. Its just like GHA in texture - fine hairy strands, but it grows like weeds on steroids, its very brownish in color and the most concerning attribute is it "makes" bubbles. (They are not just trapped air bubbles - I'm sure. ) Dinoflagellates are supposed to make bubbles, but all the pictures I've seen of that is more of a goo with bubbles floating up. This stuff is just like GHA only brown and with bubbles in the hairy mess. The best match I have found is this one picture here that is labelled as Calothrix. However that name pulls almost no promising results in google and not much on here either.

    So it was to the point I would vacuum all the algae I could reach on the weekend and it would be back to a full fledged jungle by the next weekend. At that point everything in the tank seemed to still be doing dandy though. I just couldn't figure out where this stuff was getting its nitrates and phosphates from. About two weeks ago I lost the scarlet legged hermit crab - so I tested EVERYTHING at every stage... Turns out the fish food water was LOADED! ...and I had just been thawing in tank water and dumping in - no rinsing necessary = Stupid. Even a quarter of a cube diluted in an 8oz glass of clean and tested RO/DI water completely maxed the phosphate test scale and was high enough on the ammonia to be more than lethal. :eek:

    I thought GREAT at least now I know and can do something about it. I started rinsing the food imediately.

    For these past two weeks though things turned into Baghdad in there. Algae seemed to slow with the food rinsing but not even close to going away. The Aiptasia are all shriveled and are keeping the short stubby tentacles. The fish started this sit & swim in place right above the sand usually by a rock or corner. So last weekend I started work on re-routing the filtration flow to go to the skimmer before the drip plate and also purchased a Two Little Fishies Phosban Reactor to run some GFO just for good measure, but was waiting on parts to arrive and it did mean I had to pull the skimmer to get things measured/designed for it right. Both counter measures should be done and installed tonight.

    As of last Thursday the smaller Clown developed a case of pop-eye. Upon seeing this I did a rather hefty water change Saturday night with newly purchased bucket of IO salt in addition to my vacuuming out as much of the algae as possible. (This did cause the Salinity to raise to about 1.024) Apparently it was too little too late as this morning the clown that DIDN'T have anything visibly wrong with him is dead. I am VERY worried about my last little fishy and his eyeball. I am thinking about doing another water change tonight in case this crap is releasing something into the water, but... :confused:

    Is there anything else/more/better that I can do to save my Nemo?
    HELP!?
     
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  3. Coltonis

    Coltonis Plankton

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    Just realized I had some pictures on my memory card. It looks much more green in pictures due to lighting+camera.

    This was about two-three weeks ago, before the critters started showing any signs of bad mojo , but still not pretty...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Corailline

    Corailline Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    19,652
    Location:
    It is a dry heat, yeah right !
    You give a lot of attention to detail. WOW.

    Have you looked at Bryopsis as the ID for your algae, I may have missed that.

    Google images of Bryopsis and compare a few, while yours does look more like GHA, it could be a type of Bryopsis as well.

    Pop-eye is usually a symptoms of either injury to the eye or issues with water quality. Double check you parameters against another test to make sure.

    Is it possible the clowns were having aggression issues?

    Again great eye for detail. I am going to have to re-read the post a couple times.

    :)
     
  5. djbonney138

    djbonney138 Peppermint Shrimp

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    417
    Location:
    Idaho Falls, Id.
    Just a few things that jump out at me right away are Temp is low, Salinity is low alkalinity and calcium are borderline low. (For a reef tank anyway). How old are your bulbs (I didn't see if you had said) The algae growth could be helped out by old bulbs if you aren't adding anymore phosphates or nitrates. I had similar problems to you with popeye and green hair algae. I switched to IO Reef Crystals, higher alkalinity and calcium . Kept my water chemistry consistent (no big changes to stress out my damsel) changed bulbs and upgraded my skimmer. In my opinion 78 is where you want to be on Temp and if it is fluctuating during the day that could add to the stress of the fish.

    One other thing, maybe someone else can jump in here, I remember reading that you want your sand bed to be either more than 5-6inches or less than 1. I kind of just threw a lot of stuff out there maybe somebody can give their input also.
     
  6. schackmel

    schackmel Giant Squid

    Joined:
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    3,153
    Location:
    St. Louis
    couple things could have happened IMO..........

    sand bed at 4" (while not considered deep sand bed) can still allow some hydrogen sulfide build up in the sand, and then you vacumming the sand causes it to release thus killing the tank. This might even be the reason you are seeing the bubbles sticking to everything

    IMO it looks like there is a bad case of GHA. While your phosphates read zero, that is a very inaccurate result......1. the GHA and other stuff is constantly sucking in the free phosphates so your readings will be zero. You need to test it with a phosometer I would guess your phosphates are very high and some phosphate remover would be helpful.

    I dont think that is bryopsis (though you cant see the leafs very well) as it doesnt look enough like a fern. I am having a bad outbreak of bryopsis and will post a pic in a sec.

    I have also had dinoflagelites (had everything throughout the years) dino looks exactly like a bad snot infection. Brown, bubbley sticky thick stuff

    If it were my tank I would do the following steps:
    1. kill your lights completely for 7-10 days. This means no moonlights, nothing. I even wrapped my tank in sheets to prevent radiant light from entering. Trust me, your tank will be ok without lights for this period......I had mine off for 12 days and I had SPS and clams. When you turn the lights back on, start VERY gradually. Only an hour at first, etc. It took me another 2 weeks to get back on my light schedule. Dont know how long your lights are on, but you probably need to decrease it.
    2. While lights are off, get excess nutrients out of your tank. Use GFO or phosgard and carbon. I would recommend getting a phosban reactor and run GFO (I like GFO because it will not release phosphates back into water) Check your resin and TDS in your RO/DI water. Cut back on feedings
    3. Your kH is low, I shot for 13 when I was having my problems You can use whatever product you normally use
     
  7. schackmel

    schackmel Giant Squid

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    St. Louis
    [​IMG]

    you need to look at the edges of the algea and see if it looks like ferns on the end. If it is bryopsis it is a pain to get rid of. If it is just hair algea, then it can be treated. I would also get a lawnmower blenny to put in tank if it is GHA

    yeah that is hydroids on the tank also!!
     
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  9. banthonyb71

    banthonyb71 Millepora

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    947
    I suspect you have tremendous coral growth but seems like alot of algae issues too. First thing that strikes me is your light. 6500K. I know it can be done but it makes the task ofcontrolling algae all the more challenging. Ever thin about going up to a 10k bulb? You should still get good growth, nicer colors and less algae growth.

    Also plus 1^ for the mention of Reef Crystals. Are you using this or the actual Instant Ocean Brand? The main diffrence is the essential trace elements that the Reef Crystals contians. This will take alot of guess work out of most of your parameters along with water changes.

    I also agree with running GFO and starving the algae then cutting the light cycle way way down till gone. Somone above suggested completly off but thats a choice youll have to make.

    Last thing, there is a thread on 3reef someone wrote that specifies diffrent algaes and how specifically to rid them but genrally its the same concept, starve them with GFO.

    I'll see if I can find the thread.
     
  10. SushiGirl

    SushiGirl Barracuda

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    Sep 18, 2010
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    So the skimmer's been offline since the weekend? Any water surface agitation for oxygen exchange in its place?
     
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  11. djbonney138

    djbonney138 Peppermint Shrimp

    Joined:
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    417
    Location:
    Idaho Falls, Id.
    Nice catch SushiGirl. Didn't even notice that, closed windows and no extra aeration would definitely make some inhabitants unhappy. K+
     
  12. banthonyb71

    banthonyb71 Millepora

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    .

    assuming there on now.