Difference between PH+/Upper and Buffer8.3P ???

Hello and please let me apologize for the confusion. But I am genuinely confused.

I understand that PH is tied directly to Alkalinity (kh) but I have a PH and Alkalinity that is behaving UN-tied.

I also have two Hydrometers that are different brands, both brand new and THEY read two different SG readings at the same time...lol. (1.023 and 1.026:-/). I could have saved the combined 30 bucks I paid for them and bought a refractometer with just a little more.

Back to the PH thing. My PH is 7.8 (on that sketchy API color chart) and 7.7 on a digital Hannah PH pen. Yet my KH/ (GH?) is requiring 13 drops (233ppm/KH) to turn from blue to yellow on the API KH test kit.

HERE IS WHERE MY PROBLEM LIES. Everybody at the LFS is pointing me to Buffer Raising products aka Brightwell Aquatics, Buffer 8.3P. Even after I tell them my buffer is literally off the charts on the test kit. I also see that Brightwell makes a product called PH+. Is this product to raise PH WITHOUT raising KH? I really need to know this. Cause when I explain this to people we get into the whole repeat story of the connection between KH and PH. Of which I already somewhat understand. Ahhhhh help!

I was hoping someone would have some possible insight to this, or any typical instances and remedies when this happens.

40Gal 3 small fish, 8 small hermits, 2 small crabs. Kh3@ 0ppm - No2@ 0ppm - No3@ 0ppm, Calcium @ 500ppm, KH @ 233ppm. No Protien Skimmer (yet), No Sump/fuge (yet). Currently running a Canister filter with carbon and a handful of bio balls. Tank is only a 1 1/2 month old since set up, diatom and GH algae have already cleared after cycle. Cycle accelerator was used. 25lb LR, 20lb LS, 25lb Dry Aragonite sand. One handful Chaeto Algae placed attatched to the glass on my tank. LOTS of copepods. NO corals yet, just Live Rock and Live Sand and some critters. Parameters have been somewhat stable for a little while now.

Thanks for any insight.

 

Dark Earth

the relationship between DKH and PH in simple terms

DKH or alkalinity is a total measure of carbonates in solution
some of these can and do go towards boosting PH

PH is a measure of Hydrogen ions in solution

in instances with reef tanks of high DKH with a low PH
the most common reason is excess CO2 - the carbon dioxide Ions dissolve slightly in water creating carbonic acid, whichis enough to reduce the overal PH of the solution

I note you dont have a skimmer
what is your water surface movement like?
its just ending winter in most places, so your home may have been closed up, allowing CO2 to build up and thus increasing the CO2 level in your aquarium

add a skimmer
increase water movement
allow more outside air to enter room

and you may/ should find your tanks PH will increase without any need for PH buffers

to test this
take a cup of tank water and measure PH
Then add an airline to it and pump outside air into it for an hour - re test PH

my opinion is , it will be higher after the 2nd test

Steve

 

Darkearth i had the same problem, very high dkh 15 and lower ph 7.8 -7.9 i was always trying different buffers to raise just the ph. than i started to use kalk. it solved the problem dkh dropped ph went up. now i have a stable ph of 8.2 and havent needed buffers.

 

Thanks alot Steve Wright.

I will perform the test you presented as soon as I can.

About the flow.. My canister filter is a Fluval 205 which is just rated for my tanks size. And my surface agitation doesnt seem like much to be honest.

I do have one of those 12 dollar surface skimmers set up for the intake of the canister, but thats the only thing breaking the surface tension. The rest is smooth water.

Best Regards.

 

its a good post pink4miss
Kalkwasser does have a PH of around 12 so can contribute to a PH increase at the same time it delivers calcium and carbonates

Welcome Dark Earth
you do want to have more of a ripple on the tank surface IME
as this helps keep it clear of protien based wastes that form the white oily scum and this scum prevents C02 escaping or Oxygen from exchanging with it at water surface

you might find with extra water movement, better circulation, that your PH naturally increases without the need for any PH buffers

dont be overly concerned about the 8.3 ideal target
and be aware PH will drop during lights off , simply because plants / algaes respire at that time taking in oxygen and giving off CO2 - hence many reef tanks do experience fluctuations over a 24 hour period
and these can include a drop below 8 during hours of darkness

so always test late afternoon, when the lights have been on a decent amount of time

Steve

 

i seen later the tank is new and without coral so using kalk would i think be out

 

your right pink4miss in this circumstance, probably not the required solution
but its a perfectly good post in terms of someone with a more mature set up, looking at a method of balancing those parameters

Steve

 

Great explanation Steve. I agree that it could be due to lack of dissolved oxygen in the water or excess co2.

also, I gave up on the API test. I could never get a true reading with that and almost crashed my tank. I now use a salifert kit (reads 1kh higher) or a Hanna checker.

 

It has to do with CO2. dissolved O2 has no effect on pH. Also dissolved O2 has no effect on dissolved CO2. If kH is high and pH low, it is always due to CO2 or testing error. pH 7.8 is fine though really if this is as low as it gets. When are you testing this? If it's going below this then you may want to take action. This could be running an airline hose to your skimmer outside, or using soda lime as a CO2 scrubber. Kalk will also react with Co2, but as mentioned will add ca and alk, which will build too high if there are no corals to consume it.

 

Steve Wright. Thanks for the info.

I adjusted the surface turbulence and about a week and a half later I now have a lower KH 180ppm and a Higher PH!!! 8.4

EXACTLY WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR. You were correct sir, and I THANK you very much!