Do you use a ground probe and why?

Where does the current go if it doesn't "make it" to the grounding prong? If the electricity doesn't follow the path down the grounding prong wouldn't that mean there is a path of lower resistance else where?

 

Thanks still a work in progress

Yes well I guess thing do change LOL back in the days I was coming through the trade setting for my cards a 100 amp was common and a 125 was the way to go and a 150 was a dream . I joined the local 666 I had to test again for them for my book . And my brand new Chevelle S.S 396 ci and 375Hp was 2,900.00 off the show room floor and my house cost $10,000.00 Damn thing really do change don't they LOL

 

So I guess this is as good a thread to jump into as any of the other 14,862 ground probe threads started in the last few....

I have a pretty functional knowledge of electricity. I'm a high voltage enthusiast. I've build Tesla coils, coin shrinkers, installed various residential and commercial services, built electronics from scratch, repaired appliances, etc. I've been hit by 15kv from magnetic neon sign transformers, hit 120 a few times, even been charged to 1.5 megavolts from a small peltier generator.


So coming to this hobby I am a little bit confused about the whole ground probe thing. If the ground probe simply a conductor from the tank to ground, or is there an actual compound circuit in it? I would think maybe a resistor and maybe a diode?

I see there being two distinct issues here, one is the health of the fish, one is tank keeper safety.

On the issue of safety, I would say the GFCI is your best protection against fatal electrocution. But there are other precautions you can take to protect yourself. First and foremost is not providing a path for current across your chest (and heart). Any time you're not sure of the integrity of a system check it first. Keep one hand in your pocket and use one hand to check the water.

What I''m really seeing is there's an issue on how the voltage affects fish. I understand many fish use electromagnetic sensor cells to feel their surroundings and detect prey. So I can see where transient induced voltage may confuse or interfere with those functions of a fishes biology. At some level, I have no idea what level that would be, it would be like trying to watch scrambled porn through the static... or driving in a blizzard.

The idea that the fish are getting "shocked" however isn't really valid as they're not on a path to ground. They're charged to the same voltage potential as the tank, and if they were to contact something with a lower potential then they would get shocked, but that's not going to happen unless you introduce something to the tank to provide that lower potential.

Most plastics and glass at room temperature are considered strong insulators for lower voltages (under 100KV) and nothing we play with goes close to that, so the tank itself is not an Earth ground, it's well isolated.

One faulty PH or heater will have a very localized current, as electricity like water, heat, and air, follows the path of least resistance. If it can travel 1" from hot to ground then it will not snake around the tank looking for things to shock. All you'd see if you were to test it is an increase in voltage, not current, unless measured at the source.

If you add a ground probe, i.e. a device that provides a path for voltage to move from one area to another, anything that swims between the source and the probe would be hit by the current. That would result in fish sticks for dinner (please, no gay fish jokes).


The whole induction of power into water from lighting and pump magnets is another issue. low voltage at low frequencies shouldn't cause any induction issues. There may be detectable leakage from a broken piece of equipment, but there's no way i can see real induction causing problems. Induction would require a path to something with a lower potential. That could be another failed device, an exposed ground, or a ground probe. If you have well sealed pumps and equipment then there shouldn't be a path to ground. If there is it's time to replace equipment.

So I don't think I'll add a ground probe for now, but to keep myself safe, will add a GFCI.

I'd like to hear more about it, and if there's someone who understands the role of electricity in fish I'd love to read up on that. It just seems that any current created by the probe would potentially be more harmful to livestock than a high background potential.

In laymens terms I would rather be charged to 1,000,000 volts with no path to ground than be charged to 120v with a path to ground, but neither of those situations would be what I'd call "comfortable". From experience, I can tell you being at 1,000,000+ volts is weird... it makes your skin crawl and your eyes water.... but it's not lethal unless there's a good current. Being hit by 120v with any amount of current hurts like hell.

... i dunno if this helps anyone or is just random bored at work musings... but if it sparks more consideration, I'll be happy to read it.

-Doug

 

Awesome!!! That is exactly my theory as well--I am pretty familiar with electricity also and agree that no probe is safest for fish--I stand on a wood chair when my hands go into the water. I'll just keep it that way for now, until I see good reason to change it. JMO!! K+

 

I think I'll stick with the pro grounding probe crowd. Never claimed that fish are being shocked. I think if there is any current/ electricity of any type it is bad. A bird on a powerline does not get "shocked".. but from what I've heard of the guys that wear the metal mesh suits that work on powerlines from helicopters.. they can still feel a tingling feeling while touching that stuff. I think over time it is not good and may or may not be making fish sick if there is any stray currents/voltage..


From sellers info:

Stray voltage in the aquarium can be attributed to causing various problems. Problems such as: finrot, hole-in-the-head disease and numerous others. The 'Ultra Ground' Titanium Grounding Probe can help eliminate these distressing problems. These probes feature a SOLID Titanium rod, insulated transition joint and 10ft of grounding lead to insure proper performance. Don't take a chance on having stray voltage in your aquarium.

Is this a gimmick to sell grounding probes?

 

I'm no expert but I can add to this.

A while back, each time i stuck my hand in water i felt a small tingle and gradually it got stronger and stronger. And I really didnt realize what it was until it was strong and felt like a shock. At the same time i noticed both of my tangs looked like they were developing hlle, especially in the yellow face markings on my naso tang.

The addition of a grounding probe solved both issues. Nothing else changed. I haven't changed the fish's diet, photo period, water quality, etc.

 

Actually you dont know what your talking about here. A three pronged outlet is a grounding probe with hot and common wires. A three pronged pump plugged into a gfi will produce the same result as a grounding probe plugged into the same outlet. If your pump is external or you dont use a gfi you will need a probe as I stated in the first post. I would explain why here but writing a ten page paper on this is not worth my time. For short all pumps have a transformer (not the movie type) in them that acts as an inductor. This transformer creates a magnetic field that turns the magnet attached to the end of the impeller. Now if you have "stray voltage" in your tank this voltage will change the charge on the magnet and create what is called a dead short on the transformer there by stopping the pump from working and poping the gfi. This however might not work on an outlet not attached to a gfi becuase you need to draw at least ten amps to pop the breaker and most heaters, powerheads and pumps will not draw even close to ten and burn up well before this happens. So your stray voltage is still present. Now if you put your hand in the tank and you feel a tingle then you are experiencing static discharge through your body into the water and to ground. If you had live 110 AC in the tank you would know it and it hurts much worse than static. Its your opinion that a ground probe is necessary however in some situations it is overkill. Some people like overkill while others dont. I am telling you this from 20 years of experience working with electricy and in some cases water as well.

 

My tanks are grounded, they have been misbehaving!

 

Oh but I do. But I won't discuss my qualifications with you. I'm not going to address your post, as it's generally wrong. We'll agree to disagree.

In the future, you'd might consider that a statement such as, "You don't know what you're talking about" is about as effective as the childhood "I know you are but what am I" ploy.

I didn't flame--you did. Try not to do that.

 

I have a ground probe(GP), but not b/c I was getting shocked or my fish were getting affected. I got one b/c I noticed that my PH monitor was going crazy everytime my MH went on. When I placed a GP, that all stopped and the monitor was working perfectly. I've never felt a shock placing my hands in my tank and I do at least once a day. I cant give my 2 cents on this topic b/c my knowledge of electricy is limited, but I would love to learn. Luna