Fish, and pain....

Most animals are far more complex then given credit for. They learn, and there is no doubt in my mind that they feel discomfort. My clown mourned the loss of her partner for about 3 weeks.

When one freezes fish thinking this is the most painless means of euthanasia, they need to consider what happens when a cell freezes it expands, turning into ice and bursting. This is not a quick painless death.

 

ditto big time on this one Cos!

 

lol, well the one clown will jump out of the water to get to me. Not looking forward to when it becomes a vampire like Corralines was

 

lol I can still stick my hand in my tank with the Sebae, but Coraline warned me they can draw blood. I too am waiting for that day. Hoping it never comes.

 

Interesting and very old (and emotive) question. In case anyone is interested, this is a news report on the subject from January 18, 2013. ("Fish Feel No Pain):

"IT'S a debate which has raged for decades and been used by extreme green groups to attack fishing as cruelty masquerading as sport, but new international research claims fish don't feel pain when struggling on the end of a line.

Fish do not have the brain structure, or enough specific nerve endings, to experience pain, the scientists concluded.

When a fish is hooked and struggles against the line, it is an unconscious reaction to being reeled in rather than an example of a creature writhing in agony, according to Jim Rose, professor of zoology and physiology at the University of Wisconsin, who led the project.

Their review of previous experiments, reported in the scientific journal Fish and Fisheries, included tests were researchers inserted needles, and also injected bee venom and acid, into the jaws of rainbow trout.

"In spite of large injections of acid or bee venom, that would cause severe pain to a human, the trout showed remarkably little effect,'' Professor Rose said.

He said fish also resumed normal activity within minutes of surgical procedures, or after being caught and released back into the water.

Prof Rose said fish did not possess the highly developed neocortex needed to feel pain, so don't experience it in any meaningful way like humans.

The did have nerve cell endings called nociceptors which initiate the sensation of pain, but only in extremely small numbers.

"It is highly improbable that fish can experience pain,'' Prof Rose said.

The scientists said despite their findings fish still deserved to be treated humanely.

Leading anti-fishing group PETA, which has produced ads warning children that if their father fishes he might also shoot the family dog, has rejected the new research".
.......

Whew, I wonder how much evidence there is for the last point! My experience, from decades of sport fishing and farming with ornamental fish, (and also reading on the subject) indicates to me that fish do sense pain (if you can call it that for them), but not in the same way as we do. Nor do they appear to be affected or respond in the same way as warm blooded animals. They appear not to be as stressed by it, and will continue with normal behavior (feeding, normal swimming behavior) very soon after what should be very painful trauma. I have seen marine fish in the wild (and also seen pictures of fish) which have recovered from terrible physical injuries, (of course without treatment), from which warm blooded animals would surely have died. Also, predation in the aquatic world is (appears) incredibly cruel in human terms. Slow consumption of a live prey is extremely common, even in fish - think squid slowly eating fish for example.

Nevertheless, as the article points out, it is safer to assume they do feel something, and, when necessary, to kill them humanely and quickly. (As we may find ourselves obliged to do with terminally sick aquarium fish.) If one is not prepared to throw the fish very forcibly onto a hard surface - which sounds crude but would have to be the quickest, then another way to kill (freshwater) fish rapidly and apparently totally or virtually totally painlessly is to drop them into a solution of 200 ml (by volume) of bicarb (cooking soda) into 500 ml of water, (volume as needed, in this proportion or stronger). Leave them for 10 minutes after all movement has stopped. This appears to act as a terminal tranquilizer. (Over-tranquilizing with commercial fish tranquilizers is also effective and very humane, but most people don't have these.)

 

I go fishing, and I take my children and grandchildren with me and teach them, as well. I also teach them to ignore radical extremist groups like PETA.

 

Thanks for the civil responses everyone

 

Clove oil works fine, as long as it's properly used. Unfortunately, many peeps don't use it correctly, which can result in a good deal of discomfort for the fish being euthanized:

CLOVE OIL Euthanasia Dosage and Preparation Instructions
• Put 3 drops with a half pint of water and shake very well, so the oil and water make a fusion - otherwise the oil will just float on top of the water and for the euthanasia to work the fish has to get the oil into its system.
• Add the mixture to the water that the fish is in (1 gallon of water should be more than enough) and stir it around slowly with your hand. The fish should become lethargic and sleepy. When the fish goes "belly up" it is asleep - not dead.
• Then add 3 more drops of clove oil. Add another mixture of 2 to 3 drops of oil in water.
• The fish feels nothing, it is very peaceful and humane.
• Don't make the mistake of thinking that if you initially put more in it will act quicker - it will only freak the fish out - it has to be done gradually so the fish doesn't notice the change in the water.
• The whole procedure should take anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour. You will know when the fish is completely dead because there will be absolutely no movement of the gills. If after an hour the fishes gills are still moving you could add a couple more drops of clove oil. Sometimes it does depend on the size of the fish to how many drops of clove oil are needed.
• Properly dispose of the deceased fish and wash treatment container thoroughly with soap and water.

MS-222 (finquel) works well, but is more expensive than clove oil.

One can also use CO2 exposure, either by bubbling the gas into the water or using Alka-Seltzer (1 tablet/20 l or 2 tablets/10 gals). Leave the fish in the solution at least 10 mins after you see the last opercular movement.

One can indeed use cold as a euthanasia technique, however, the fish should only be chilled to 4*C (39*F), as this will prevent the cells from freezing.

Just a few methods that are about as humane as it gets.

 

That's exactly how I use it

 

thank you for the detailed clove oil method post. I was just about to post that question because I had not heard of it and wondered how it worked, but alas - there it was!