for better or worse?

guys i use cannister filters....yes i can feel the love allready.....but please hear me out.
i use them for bio only and dont run floss as i have large internal filters with floss to do the job(changed every 5-7 days) and most of the detrius is susspended in the water collum due to the tubitity of my in tank pumps.

its a bare bottom tank,and one of the large filter cannisters i use is filled with matrix and noodles and my tank is 5 months old and when i cleaned out my 20 litre extra large cannister today i was supprised at how clean it was so it couldnt be a nitate factory.or could it?

now the other bio cannister is allmost 10 ltrs capacity but has the same internally as my extra large cannister,and i am wondering if the ability for me to turn the taps far back as possable and reducing the flow to a trickle
will provide better nitrification filtration capabiliteis? it has a flow of around 50 ltrs an hour or a little over.

 

Judge

nothing wrong with well maintained cannister filters IME
if you stay on top of them , your parameters are the best judge of your system

if for example you have 80ppm Nitrate- then you would be right to at least consider the possibilty of your cannister filter being at fault for this.

what is your current Nitrate level?

having said that, in a tank with enough rockwork (base or live - it all becomes live ultimately) combined with good skimming often negates the need for the cannister

( your bacteria lives on the matrix and noodles in your cannister - mine lives on and in the pores of my rockwork)

if you have decent flow and a good ratio of rock to water , you may be able to gradually remove the cannister filter as a means of biological filtration altogether (gradual)
and use it to run Carbon or other chemical media ( if you dont have a reactor these are often good enough )

Steve

 

thanx steve
i just want to know if you think i can make what i got work.
my aim is to get my rock covered in corraline then stock inverts.
tank 4 months old1.i have a 120 ltr tank FOWLR with 100 ltrs actual water after displacment
2. 25 kg live rock
3. aqua medic flotor bio wheel skimmer with matrix in bottom
4. 1 x 20 ltr large eheim cannister or more like a bucket filter.(no floss)all matrix and noodles and effi mesh.(bio only)
5. 1 x large 8ltr cannister as same as above(bio only)
6. halilea chiller
7. 150 watt halide with 2 x t5 attinic.
8. two internal powerheads with 8 inch long x 80 mm diameter pvc capped with hole in middle pushed on bottom of power head one with purigen regenerated every three weeks and one with phosgaurd and both have floss filled in the rest of the way holding in my purigen and phosgaurd.(floss changed every 5 -7 days max.
9. 2 x clowns 1 x dotty back.
if you had this system what do you think you would have to do to make it work ie: zero nitrate almost zero phosphate ect
my current lvls are

phosphate bellow 0.5
nitrate 10ppm and 7 days l8tr allmost 20ppm

do you think i need more time for good bacteria to hold thier own before i can do less water changes?

will the nitrification capabillities get better if i stay on top of maintenance?

any idea whether getting a aquaripure de nitrater will aid the situation?

what lvls of success would be realistic?

 

to sum up

you have 25 US gallons of water with 50lb of live rock - great, thats ideal IMO
aquamedic flotor - a good skimmer IMO for that sized tank

I have cut and pasted the next bit from your post - you have

. two internal powerheads with 8 inch long x 80 mm diameter pvc capped with hole in middle pushed on bottom of power head one with purigen regenerated every three weeks and one with phosgaurd and both have floss filled in the rest of the way holding in my purigen and phosgaurd.(floss changed every 5 -7 days max.

back to Steve now


I use both Phosguard and Purigen on my 70 - I have 0 Phosphates (0 algae also) and 0 nitrates

so the fact that you have levels in your 25 can only mean that they are not being used as effectively or efficiently as those 2 media are in my set up

I think the flow through those power heads with pipe adpators is not good enough and that Phosphate and nitrate generation is faster than those media can remove

IMO - get the Phosgaurd and Purigen into fine mesh bags ( otherwise as you know the tiny particles end up all over the place) and make room for them in your cannister filter below

Im pretty sure if you do that, the increased water flow through them will address both of those levels

the Nitrates at 10ppm - 20ppm - is not a big issue IMO
phosphate could be

if you cant bring the Phosphate down using my suggestion - try Phosban or Rhowphos which is an alternative media GFO and is well known as being effective against this nutrient


Steve

 

yes steve that would prolly be ok but the trouble is phosgaurd needs to be replenished often and putting it in the tank filters is easy for me to service.
the power head i use is a aquaclear 70.
i thought that the amount of water going through the aquaclear 70 would be more than my cannisters could provide as it is concentated flow right through the middle of the purigen and phosgaurd. perhaps its just the test kit saying its 0.5 but really its 0 because you know the phosgaurd is exausted when the phosphates begin to rise again prompting the need to replenish the phosgaurd.
my lvls stay the same and it takes a week and a half for it to begin to rise.

im waiting for a three way controlled wave maker that will be more than enough to provide more flow in the tank,do you think this will help?

i didnt know that 0.5 phospahte was considered a high reading,do you mean it is not good for me to have phosphates at that lvl ?

 

understood Judge

what test kit are you measuring with by the way - I use Salifert as it has a reputation for accuracy

Phosguard as you say needs to be replenished as and when Phosphate levels rise
meaning the media has absorbed all it can - using more means longer between changes

my understanding is that Phosphate levels above 0.1 are undersirable and above 0.25 they can retard coral growth including coralline

if your happy you can get enough in your home made reactor but cant get levels down
I would suggest you try GFO product next time as you might have different results with that

more flow can help get the water with waste in delivered to the bacteria more often

Do you syphon over your rock work during water change time as accumulated detrius in crevices etc in the rocks can also contribute to nutrient levels
Steve

 

hi steve thanx for yr help and time i really apprieciate it.

i use a turkey baseter to blow off dietrius every day.

yes i have been meaning to get a saliferts.and will take yr advise and get one.

i tested how low a flow i can get from one of my cannister filters and got 75 ltrs an hour.
do you think the flow would be low enough to get anerobic bacteria going?

cheers

 

Judgedread - your welcome
having never tried it, I cant say for certain
I fully understand the prinicple of reduced flow, low oxygen thus more anaerobic bacteria and thus reduced nitrates - but am sceptical as regards its effectiveness to be honest

I would also worry about the possible negative effects to the existing bacteria if you change conditions for them ( you may well create another spike and with creatures in situ thats not ideal IMO)

I can say that having a Nitrate level of 20ppm in a reef tank is not a major issue
unless you want a tank full of SPS

you may want to look down the Sump/ Fuge/ macro route as thats another way many people do utilise with great effect to process nitrates

hopefully someone will chime in, if they disagree with my opinions

Steve

 

Judge, just to chime in on the phosphate deal. I see ur kinda concerned about your nitrates and trying to get them down. You aren't going to do that without getting your phosphates down. How do you do this?? skimming and gfo with little feeding is how i do it. Really man, this isn't rocket science and I feel, no offense, that you are making this way harder than it is. With your phosphates sitting at the level that you say they are, 2 things are going to happen. Nitrates are going to keep rising and your rock is eventually going to fill up with phosphates and start leaching. When this happens, you get algae alright but it isn't coraline. I would absolutely get myself a phosphate reactor, start running gfo, slow down on feeding(i'll bet a million dollars that you overfeed. 99 percent of us do) and kick ur skimmer up on kill. Your rock will only be able to do this for so long.

 

hi dan
man i pracaticly starve my fish lol

i feed them very little like even miss out every other day.

my aqua medic bio flotor is cranked as high as it will go.

i have got a 7 ltr cannister filter thats been running for about three months and it has no floss and its filled with matrix and noodles.

what are yr thoughts on what will happen if i turn the flow down to 50 ltrs an hour after running it normally for three months?