Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Yes I thought that was the purpose of the Eco? Didn't it come with lights? One problem with the Eco design is that you can't removed the paddles to clean them in a sink. This mean that as you scrape them, the algae strands are broken and their contents enter your system, causing yellowing. Otherwise it works good. User Matt&Pam on RC have a long thread about theirs.

 

The Power Of Light.

Here's an interesting growth sequence. This fellow started out with just a low power NO tube, on one side. After switching to a 23W CFL, things changed:

 

It's Time For The Santa Monica 120 Acrylic!

Ok it's time to move my screen from the ugly bucket by the sink (with hoses, wires, timers, etc) to under the tank where it can sit on the sump. The idea for this design came from all the readers who tried to install their screens over their sumps. Low profile is important for me, as it is to anyone without a fish room, so I picked 6" as the max height. That would give me room to lift out the screen and pull it out of the stand, with room to spare. And at 6" height, the pvc pipe will take up 1", leaving 5" for the screen. So the screen will be 5 X 24 = 120 sq in. This is good for a decently-stocked 90 like mine, or a lightly stocked 200 with no real nutrient problems. Here is the initial layout that I gave to the acrylic shop:




Wide screens like this are more efficient and powerful (with the same light) than tall narrow screens, but require more flow. My screen will need 24" X 35(gph/in) = 840 gph. However the same 120 sq in screen placed vertically would only need 5" X 35(gph/in) = 175 gph. The vertical placement has a disadvantage in that the water at the top gets filtered by the top of the screen, but then has to travel over the lower parts of the screen. Since it's already been filtered at the top, not much happens on the bottom part of the screen. This problem is eliminated with a horizontal screen since all the water that passes over the 5 inches of screen needs filtering.

Another good use for a low-profile screen like this would be for on-top of tank, when you want the pods to drain directly down into the display. Or, if you don't have a sump, the on-top placement would work great if you put the pump in the display.

The acrylic box came back from the acrylic shop, finished beautifully. They still have the plans, so if anyone wants the same box, call Hastings Plastics at 310-829-3449 and say you want the "aquarium algae filter screen box". The only change would be the "U" cutouts for the pipe: Tell them to make them a little larger round, and a little deeper, since the pipe was hard to push into them (and it stuck out a bit which made the lid not close all the way. ). I did a little grinding, and now it's perfect. The cost was about $100, without shipping. Here's how is arrived:




Unwrapped. Notice the bottom and ends are mirrored acrylic, with the mirror facing inwards:










The lid fits mirror-side down:




The pipe fits snug so that little light will escape. I had to grind the "U" cutouts a little bigger and deeper so the pipe would not block the lid:




The lid fit perfectly after the pipe cutouts were enlarged:




Here are the lights. They come with a combo of 10K and actinic:

24 inch Current USA Nova Extreme 2x24 watt T5 HO 10K/460nm, T5/T12 Fixtures > Fully Assembled Fixtures > Lighting > Aquarium


I removed the bulbs, and got 6500K and 3000K from here:

GE T5 High Output Fluorescent Grow Lamps - Plantlighting Hydroponics & Grow Lights


I'm going to set it up with 6500K on one side and 3000K on the other. Nobody recommednds 10K for macros, except for one person: The guy at Inland Aquatics that has been growing turf screens for 10 years. So, I'll try 10K soon, but not to start. Maybe you can start with 10K on yours and let us know how it works

Then I placed the lights on the acrylic and marked off where the the bulbs will be shining through:




Some method has to be used to mount the lights to the sides. I'm using acrylic blocks and acrylic glue:




The light-mounting is a bit tricky, because the lights need to be removeable, yet be pressed up against the acrylic to minimize light leakage (which would be important for an above-the-tank placement in plain view). The lights are then placed in the mounts:




The overall size ended up being 6.5" high X 6" deep X 24" long:






Here's a size comparison; the inside of the stand was once filled with filtration devices, and now it's just water:




Taped and ready for spray painting:




First coat was a metallic silver, so that the inside would reflect more:




After painting with black primer, and putting lights on:




End view:




Side view:




Lid off, ready to use:




The long, low-profile pipe and screen:




Lights on:




Setting on sump:




Running, with front light removed to see flow:




So, I rubbed algae from my original bucket into the new screen, then installed the screen and turned it on. I'm starting with the flow and lights on 24 hours, in order to speed up the growth. I'll decide later if I'm going to pulse the flow, and I'll wait for the algae to grow a bit before putting the lights on a timer. Also, there is no fan, because I wanted to make it as simple as possible for folks who wanted to try it themselves. I may try a fan later, but for now let's see how it does without one. Also also, I'm leaving my original bucket running, for safety, but of course this will slow down growth on the new screen.

 

All of you that are going to try and run one of these a carbon reactor is a must to keep the water from turning to the color of beer ? Any of you guys trying to emulate this deal ,I'll say have at it But know this its no substitute for a good skimmer and you have to use a good carbon and a reactor makes it more efficient .
A refugium offers more benefits and less trouble if you keep a refugium and not a planted 2nd mini system.. I was i. invited to go to a Macana ? I don't do clubs and meeting so I have little brain space to remember these names of social events and all the aquarium Big Guns. Mamca ? what ever its called back in 99 or 2000 ? in Dallas Tx. where all the wolds fish nerds all gather and talk , There where much discussion about these again.. some of the older guys had already ran them and the Guy from the inland aquarium place in In.
Some of the guys here go there they had a Guy Martin , Maury Something like that they had been dealing with them then for a few yrs and I assume they still maybe trying them ? But we where invited up to see their operation , I did not go but the guy I went to Dallas with they went and both told me the same thing all of their tanks had the old yellow look . If you want to try and find a way to make them work as a stand alone system good luck but be warned its been done since the Mid 70's and its still is not a total filtration system .
Just like the DSB and Plenum's there where not a total filtration system either unlike advertised either and the emphasis is on (WHERE)

 

that looks like A LOT of work

I'll stick with my skimmer it's never done me wrong

 

The guy is trying t reinvent the wheel I guess , It been done and re done it will never work as a single stand alone filtration system.. If people would juts allow the algae in a fuge to really get over grown then simple pull out a bunch every few weeks they will get the same effects , The guy at that even in 99 was working with them and he and I talked in depth and he said that it was lacking I think otty or Kogle posted they are still messing with them ? Its nothing new, and if you ever went to a scrubber there are better ways to build one.. I don't see or feel the need yellow water and the smell was what I found to bother me room /house smells like a ball of algae or swampy . They where all over R/C about 10 yrs ago just like the DSB LOL it will not work on its on .. Its limited in its effects even in the real ocean there is some natural skimming and cleansing .

 

Iraf: I don't know, the bucket took about an hour to build. And I had all the parts except the plastic canvas screen, which was $1 at the sewing store. How much time and space and energy and money have you gong through to get zero N and P?

Tangster:

Not true. Yellowing apparently has been discovered in the last 3 or 4 years to be caused by scraping the screen while leaving it in the system (i.e., "in-system"), thereby allowing the contents of the algae strands to be released into the system. This causes yellowing very quickly. Those older turf scrubbers were huge, especilly the ones at public aquariums, and thus the screens were not designed to be removed easily, nor did they know that they even should be removed. Nobody today, meaning in the last 3 or 4 years, has reported any yellowing. Certainly not mine... it's crystal clear. Also, many scrubber users back then would never scrape (clean) their scrbbers at all. That causes yellow for sure. Matter of fact it's recommended to at least clean your scrubber once a week in the sink (tap water is ok), and scrape it (when needed) in the sink also. Never in the system. But if yellowing did occur for whatever reason, a monthly dose of carbon (that you need anyway to remove allelopathics) will fix it up.

You're right. Skimmers don't remove any inorganic N and P. Scrubbers do. So if you are trying to remove N and P from your system (probabably because you have nuisance algae in the display), then a scrubber will have it down you almost zero with four weeks. The skimmer won't do anythig for the inorganic N and P.

The one benifit of a fuge is that it grows larger fauna (amphipods, etc), whereas turf grows copepods. Other than that, turf is different from a fuge in so many ways:



o Reduces N and P to much lower levels than fuge/macro can.

o Is very quick to respond to excess nitrate and phosphate spikes (the turf "screen" always
stays the same size after it is trimmed); much quicker than refugiums/macros which have
smaller surface areas after they are trimmed.

o Traps no waste/food like a refugium or DSB does; waste/food flows right past the screen.

o Does not release strands into display, like chaeto.

o Does not go sexual, like caulerpa can.

o Is 1/2 or 1/3 the size.

o Weighs nothing.

o Cools the water.

o Much easier to clean/harvest.

o Can be hung above tank so pods drain into tank.

o Is free.

o Is portable.

o Can run two, for backup.

o Will oxygenate the tank if main return pump goes out, if the scrubber drains into the display.

(1) Becasuse they scrape in-system. (2) Because they don't care. They are growing corals, not displaying them:

Stonies, SPS, Soft Coral and Polyps

Yes, as I mentioned in my post, a lot of the mechanisms of turf have been on the forums for a while. I read most of them going back to 2000, and a few alt.rec.aquaria ones back to '93. And I also gathered info from those who used turf in the past, or read Dynamic Aquaria, which thereby brings us back to the '70s for using turf in aquariums. The "new" part, however, is just putting the turf into a bucket, and doing it for (basically) free. The only commercial turf unit you can buy today cost $3,000 USD, and is bigger than most tanks itself. Since basically nobody is going to spend that, and because it's so big, there has been no talk of turf in the last few years, and therefore folks new to reefs don't know about turf at all. Kinda like if there were a new type of skimmer that only cost $30 but outperformed every other type including becketts, but nobody was talking about it. The purpose of me posting is to get new folks involved, without making it too technical, so that we can all benefit from what can be learned about the turf.

It already is. Matter of fact I'm having to create a list of them all. I'll post when complete.

If you knew how scrubbers really worked, you'd know this would not be effective: (1) Your scraping in-system, (2) insufficient turbulence over a wide area, (3) insufficient lighting over a wide area, (4) is not on a reverse photo-period,

Let's see it then. Show it or link to it. I'm sure you are here to help the other readers, otherwise why would you be posting. So they want to see it.

There is no smell when it is running (it's covered by flowing water, after all.)

Turf is #1 in absorbing disolved nutrients in the ocean (Crossland C. J. 1983.
Dissolved Nutrients In Coral Reef Waters. In: Perspectives on Coral Reefs (Barnes D. J., ed.)

No ther is not. Where do you think the foam goes when it washes up on the beach? Back to the water, that's were. And even if the foam were collected and removed from the beach by volunteers, how much would that 2 or 3 feet of foam on the beach effect millions of miles of seawater anyway?

 

Look I'll give you the fact that yes, they do help with nutrients exportation. Thats a given. But what I'm seeing here is you trying to convince people that this is a be all do all stand alone all inclusive form of filtration. It's not and you either know it but still, for whatever reason, are trying to convince others that they are or you really feel that they are which tells me that you lack any long term experience with these types of systems.

Now here is what I'm seeing taking place here with your thread and I don't fault you for it but if what I think is right, you should pay to become a 3Reef sponsor which will give you the right to sell these systems on this site. I sense that you are trying to market this idea either for yourself or for someone else wanting to market this "new" idea on more of a commercial level. Thats fine. The only problem I have with this is you telling people that it's a stand alone will do it all method of filtration. I have seen you posting this information on several hobbiest sites with mixed results. I have read all of your posts on here and several other boards and I know I'm not the only one who challanges you on this. I have seen what those who share my opinions about this system have written in your Reef Central thread and have to say that although you didn't like what they had to say, their opinions and arguments are more than valid and not to be dismissed just because what they had to say didn't support your opinions/methods. I suspect that there might have been some behind the scenes arguing with your opponents which may be why you were eventually removed from the Reef Central community. Either that or people and/or mods didn't like that you were sending certain members private messages asking them to support you on your thread against those that were disagreeing with you. Don't know, don't really care.

I myself have applied this method for many yrs before i went to refugiums. If you can show me one new idea or innovation that you have added to improve on what was used 35 plus yrs ago I'll have a look see and I'll try it myself. Then get back to you but right here today at this point in time you have not found or added anything new. It's the same little pig with a different color lipstick period.

 

I think that is the first post I've read of Tangsters that I didn't have to re-read!(jib-jab)

 

I took my time as I wanted to get my point across and leave little room for misinterpretation , I left debunking all of the misinformed quotes apart until another time. I was tired.