Moose 250

I bought a RSM250 this past Monday (2/15/10). Getting the location for the tank prepped and waiting for my ro/di unit to arrive so I can start making water.

While I'm waiting, I'm perusing the net for ideas on a sump. Yeah, I know, why buy a 250 if you are going to use a sump??

But the fact is, some folks do it any way. I like the tank, and I'm interested in doing the extra filtration in a fuge. Having the ability to add on items in a sump like a PO4, etc... Why now? Because I don't want to get the tank into place, up and running, and then find I want to add the sump THEN instead of NOW. Just trying to put a little forward thinking into this.

So, I plan on strengthening the stand by putting all-thread into the front (yes, copying off of others like dufresne). Buy a sump and put it in the stand before I get the tank on top.

But I need some help with the overflow in the back so I can get the water down to the sump. Then, how strong of a pump do I need to get the water back up to the tank?

I like dufresne's way of skimming, but I have no idea how he made that overflow box. I can figure out the plumbing, but not the box itself (how deep, how wide). I sent a PM, but no response yet.

http://www.3reef.com/forums/show-off-your-fish-tanks/my-max-250-a-64036-2.html Page 2

http://www.3reef.com/forums/show-off-your-fish-tanks/my-max-250-a-64036-4.html Page 4

If anyone can suggest a sump/fuge like what he used, I would be very thankful.

If you recognize the box below (from the links used above), let me know.





Thanks,
Moose

 

sump/fuge on the back burner for now

Well, I gave up on the idea of using a sump/fuge for now. Couldn't find a overflow box to go into the second chamber. Lifereef was a few months out for build schedule. While Lifereef is my preferred choice, I'm going to focus on getting the tank up and going.

I plumbed a drain line into the wall behind the tank for water changes. I don't want to do the bucket brigade, so a little fore thought into what I was building will help me later. I also cut a second pass through from the basement to use as an access for a supply water line and supply pump switch. This will allow me to mix and store my saltwater in my new 44 gal container in the basement, and then connect the pump to the supply line. After the tank water is removed, I can just flip on the switch and pump my pre-mixed pre-heated water from the basement reservoir to the tank.

MaxPure 90GPD RODI from SpectraPure is due March 2, and I just bought 50lbs of Florida rock from John Maloney (Reefcleaners.org). Should have this tank ready to be born next week!

Will post more pictures soon. Doubt anyone wants to see pics of an empty tank

 

Moose, that sounds like a great system. I would not give up on the sump/refuge just yet. There really are way too many benefits to ignore.
Are you looking for one thats already built commercially or would you be cool with 55 or 75 converted to your specs?

 

sump/fuge- If I do a DIY, I need to modify my pre-built stand from RSM. The center support reduces the sides to 17.0 inches depth, and 16.5 inches width. I dont mind doing this, but my lfs' dont have much. I cant decide on one from online.

I like the one from lifereef, and may buy one in april/may time frame. It's just on the back burner for now while I get the tank up and going (cycled). It's going to take another week to get the tank ready to go, and then 4-6 weeks for a cycle since i'm using more base rock than live rock.

I looked at Dufresne's method, and that was a good idea:
3reef Forums - Max 250 DIY Projects

And Lifereefs version looks good, but goes in chamber three (left most) instead of two. Dufresne's uses chamber one, where the chiller ports are.
Lifereef overflow - 3reef Photos

The reason I don't like chamber three use is because that's where the fans are. I believe the fans are important for air exchange, and should be left alone.

If you know of other methods, I'm listening!

 

Well, I'm not exactly experienced in the hobby, but I'm not seeing why you need another overflow to hook up a sump in a RSM 250. I say this considering that the way the tank is designed, even if you make an overflow box in the back compartment (doesn't mater which one), the sides of the surface skimmer built-in to the tank will allow water to pass until the tank is 1/3rd drained.

If you consider it, the regular height of the water in the back compartments will, in the case of a blackout, equalize with the water in the display portion of the tank. As you may have seen, the back compartment normally runs at a level from just a bit, to much lower than that of the display tank. In this case, an overflow box in that back compartment, working normally at an operating level, won't stop runaway siphoning any better than having a pipe attached to the accessory kit, with a hole drilled about an inch below the water level you normally have the back compartments at.

You need another method to prevent such an accident on this tank setup. I'd consider a mechanical float valve for the siphon pipe to be a decent measure against this.

A second consideration is that you're already getting the surface water on the first gate, and that's going to the built-in skimmer and sponge to be filtered (2/3rd to the filtration, 1/3 to the sponge, if it flows evenly based on the pumps' strength). You're likely to get very little, if any, crud off the surface of the water, regardless as to compartment, unless you remove the skimmer and place a different one inside the sump.

 

Hi Blackraven-

Thanks for the questions!

The internal skimmer would be removed. A new skimmer would be purchased to be used in the sump. Larger skimmer, and more water for stability, were the main reasons for a sump. Looking at some of the sump designs, mangroves, clams, etc.. were added to one of the sump sections to become a fuge. It seems I caught the bug for looking at one idea and turning it into more.

The overflow box installed in either chamber one, two, or three would control the flow of water out of the tank. I think a mechanical float would be a great safety addition, so thanks for the idea!

Here is the Lifereef design which can be installed in chamber three.


Also look at Dufresne's home made skimmer he used on this forum. Same idea, just homemade.

Cheers!
Moose

 

Yeah, I'm putting together a 'fuge for my max 250 too (regular filter sump to be done at a later date), and I think I'm gonna go with the PVC pipe style overflow with a float inside the tank for safety. Since the water level in the back is going to rise to the main tank level at about a ~3.5 inch rise in the back to 1 inch drop in the front ratio until they equalize, and the back runs 2-3 inches lower than the front, I'm gonna have it set up where when the water level gets too high it shuts off, instead of the way an overflow would stop a flood when the water gets too low. (This is the point I tried to make in the other post, but I think I failed at getting it across clearly. If you still don't understand what I mean, you can raise your surface skimmer to a height where the back compartment is only filled 1/2 way up the viewing window, then turn off pumps 1 and 2, and compare the tank and view window water levels to where they were before.)

It's almost scary that the tank is designed this way, as a sump/fuge needs alot of engineering because of it. I really doubt that an overflow would work to prevent a flood down below because of the uneven water levels, without leaving much more room for water in it than normal.

I haven't quite figured out what to do about the power coming back on, though. That would be just as bad, as the DT would overflow from the fuge being pumped out while the float would still be in the up position unless I'm there to hold it down for a minute...Maybe a thing exists similar to a computer's settings where you have an outlet that won't auto-on after a power outage? How about another float set up the same way, except on the return line? Would that potentially damage the pump, or would the pump break through the float switch being off?

I'm doing it with a 16x16x20 custom-built tank on one half of the stand instead of the brace + standard tank method. Don't wanna be cutting underneath the tank since it's already running and in the living room

 

Thanks for the clarification of the center chamber water levels. I understand what you mean. I think that is the reason most people use chamber 1 or 3 for their overflows. I like chamber 3 (right side) where the chiller ports can go because it's got the opening through the back. Dufresne put his there, if I recall correctly.

I also seriously thought about drilling the back of the center chamber, but after reflection, it's not a great idea.

With the typical weir configuration of pvc pipe, I think that concept is the best. Use the sump return to get suction on the top of the wier to remove air. That should guarantee your water flow will work in the event of a power outage. Lots of articles out there on weir, and it sounds like you are well versed on it.

When you get yours running, please post some pics. I'll do likewise. Right now, I'm concentrating on hooking up my new RO/DI unit. Once I get that done, I can try to get my tank born. Rock should be here any day now, so I'm hopeful that in a few days I can start my cycle.

 

Well, the baffles in the rear portion of the 250 that are solid from the bottom (the ones that might prevent too much water from getting to chambers 1 and 3) aren't really all that tall, as both seem to have their tops at about the bottom edge of the viewing window and will only stop the water after it's drained about 5 inches from the display tank level (chamber 1 is 5-6 inches below the display portion's water level depending on how high you keep the DT, chamber 2 is about 3-4). If it's a 4 inch drop from water level to overflow, the tank would have about 16 gallons drained from it. That's far too much to make a 20G fuge (the size I'll have) both useful and safe. So, gotta do something different to keep that from becoming a problem, as chambers 1 and 3 aren't really any safer than chamber 2.

 

Check my blog for updates on my tank. Finally got the rock in, water up to temp, salinity correct, and added nitrobac 48 hrs ago.