Nitrates and biological media question

I have been looking up nitrate problems and causes to try to figure out why I had problems a while back. While doing this and also long before this I kept seeing post of people saying biological media was converting ammonia and nitrites to nitrates and was causing problems cause nothing was there to take care of the nitrates. I do not see the reasoning. Where is the biological media causing the problem? If there was ammonia and nitrites there to convert wouldn't you want it converted to nitrate because it is less toxic? Where is the idea this ammonia and nitrite is magically coming out of thin air to be converted because the bio media is there? It has to be there in the first place right? Can someone please explain this.

 

Biological media? Sorry I am a bit confused, with regard to how you are using this term. Are you referring to BioPellets or nitrifying bacteria found within the LR, sand, and surface area.

The ammonia is present secondary to the metabolism of tank inhabitants. The ammonia is then converted to less toxic, but still toxic nitrites and then to nitrates, by different types of nitrifying bacteria.
Nitrate leaves the tank via water changes, and exporting using macro algae like chaeto. Or other algae and mangrove. A skimmer also removes some of the DOC.
A source of carbon can be introduced to the system as well that encourages the growth of beneficial bacteria.

Not sure if I even came close to answering the question.

 

I was going to basically type the same thing as Corailline. The media word has got me confused

 

I think that maybe the OP is referring to bioballs? These are often referenced as creating nitrates, which basically just means they house enough bacteria in their relatively large surface area to convert ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate.

I think to help clarify the OP's question, the reason media like this presents a problem is that it does not further the process of converting nitrate to N2 or bind it up in other means... therefore nitrates will start to build up in the system unless removed through some other means... most folks refer to this as a "nitrate factory".

Now that we know there are better methods of nitrification in our aquarium, most folks stopped using bioballs and other porous "bio-media" in favor of live rock, deep sand beds, macro algae export, skimming, and carbon dosing as in vodka or biopellets...

Does this answer your questions?

 

Thank you for clarifying. I did mean Bio ball type media. I understand that this is what happens. The bio-balls(or type media) convert to the last stage(nitrate) but have no aerobic way of processing any further. The question still remains" How can bio-media be blamed if it was there to convert in the first place?". Would not the bio-media aid in the conversion then perhaps the live rock complete? I dont understand how the bio-media is talked about like it is the "cause" of the nitrates. The other elements had to be in place first right?

 

Bio-balls fail for two reasons in my opinion.

First they do not have enough area for anaerobic bacteria to grow, which is essential. And I am not buying, but they provide a larger surface area for aerobic bacteria. You need to have media that is porous.

Second, detritus which is a major contributor to elevated nitrates, accumulates within the bio-balls, thus contributing to what bio-balls are supposed to be preventing.

Some people will dispute this, so it's just my experience and opinion of them.

 

Thank you. Now I understand the concept of "nitrate factory". They are claiming the bio-balls actually hold build up that in turn make excess nutrients rather than get rid of them. I actually never considered using them just wanted to understand the concept. I do use Matrix though. Do you have any opinions on that? It is actually "suppose" to be able to house aerobic bacteria.

 

For me the most efficient and best system I have had for a reef tank is the Berlin Method.

Sufficient live rock and a skimmer and carbon. I do use mechanical filtration like a sponge to remove free floating particles but not continuously. A Ca reactor is also sometime used.

It is the simplest and most effective type of system IMO. Again everyone has their own recipes for reef keeping.

 

I believe I answered this question in my original post... it's not that the bio-balls are "blamed" but that they don't complete the cycle. Since we as hobbyists have other means of filtration that take care of all three nowadays- ammonia, nitrite, nitrate- the limitation of bioballs has lost it's place in reef tanks.

In a fish only system with no live rock and no other means of filtration, bio balls can help the system a lot... but now in many cases FOWLER systems instead of FO systems are used...

But if we are talking about reef aquaria, there is no need for bio-balls, and they can become a nuisance because they WILL trap detritus, which will need to be rinsed on occasion.

 

Agree, bioballs can trap detritus which is a problem. Also, the bacteria, which converts ammonia and nitrite to nitrate work more efficiently on the surface of bio-balls because they are exposed to air, which effectively increases their metabolism. This bacteria then can out-compete bacteria living on live rock for nutrients in the water column. As the end product, produced by this bacteria is nitrate, if produced on bioballs, it is further from the anerobic pores in the liverock, were bacteria that converts nitrate to nitrogen live. Therefore it has to travel some distance and diffuses all throughout your tank before it can get there. So, it is an inefficient mode of transfer. On the other hand, if nitrate is produced by bacteria on liverock, it only has to travel a very short distance to reach the denitrifying bacteria. So, this is much more efficient.

While this is a well documented process in the world of microbiology, nevertheless, some people don't have issue with bio-balls. However, all the same, no one can really come up with any significant benefit to using them in a reef aquarium either. So, to me, it seems like unnecessary, potential source of headaches at best.