Photosynthesis and the Reef Aquarium Part I: Carbon Sources

Well, then Maybe Tang can explain all the errors in Randy's dribble then.

 

OK....time out. Neutral corners. Lets all calm down. ;D

Like I said previously, I think the article was done well. Some people will find it interesting and some won't because most people consider plants like a "black box". You have inputs.....then something "magical" happens and then you have outputs. For enquiring minds who need to know, this is a pretty good article explaining what goes on in the "Black Box".

Frankly, I think that anyone who is utilizing a algal scrubber inside their refugium should read this article to understand. However, that's just my opinion. I am a curious guy. I like to know how things work. Not everyone is that way.

I'm sure that most people would be shocked to learn that the best phosphate exporter they could put into their refugium would be cyanobacteria.

Boomer, I appreciate you standing up for Randy just like you would stand up for Craig Bingham. However, this argument isn't important and takes away from the people who want to learn what happens inside the "black box". Randy did an excellent job of explaining chemical reactions relating to photosynthesis.

Tangster, I don't know what flows you're talking about. However, part of the scientific process is formulating a hypothesis and then testing it. I can easily see a chemist saying testing is needed before giving an opinion or stating this is my guess, but I don't have any proof. Regardless, I look back at some of my posts from years ago and shudder. I can't believe that I said that. Maybe he was right....maybe he was wrong. You can't change the past.

For the good of 3Reef, I would hope that both of you would be willing to have some posts pruned. If you guys are willing, then this post should be pruned from the thread as well.

 

Curt I'll be short and then leave it. He has go the wrong guy. Randy never said any of that. He has only been on the internet since Dec 1999 and has a refug longer than that. His first post was July 2001 on reefs org. and April 2001 on RC. And of all people to mock in this hobby Randy is the last one. Tang can feel free to show me such a post/s by Randy.

 

Thanks for the article Boom
I thought it was intresting;D

I've never run the refugiums on day/night photoperiod always 24/7
all I have is cheato, shimp,pods and snails do you see any problems running a 12/12 day/night or should I go 16/8 day/night
If this grows more cheato and saves me money im going to be stoked I bet It will even give the chiller a little break8)

Thanks again
Ricky

 

Your welcome Rick

 

By applying the simple definition of the word photosynthesis you should see the problem with a 24/photo period. For any plant to do it's job taking up Co's when its light as a food/carbon source and when lights off at night they release 0'2 as a waste by product from the up take of the Co2 And we won't even get into bacterial photosynthesis another large more complicated animal all together.

And the main reason for the reverse day time photo period is to allow the Plants to up take the higher co'2 in marine tanks water at night and they release the excess by products or waste as 0'2 when the lights are on and this will keep the 0'2 and Ph as well as many elements far more stable.

Bottom line is the problem with running a 24/7 lighting period on a plant is not accomplishing what you have a refugium for it's totally defeating the idea , As nothing that lives will run 24/7 with out a rest period and nothing will live long with no food and your plants on a 24/7 period can't release their collected and stored waste by products.

pho·to·syn·the·sis
noun

Definition:
carbohydrate production using light and chlorophyll: a process by which green plants and other organisms turn carbon dioxide and water into carbohydrates and oxygen, using light energy trapped by chlorophyll

 

The whole idea with running Caulerpa 24/7 to prevent it from going asexual will work for a while but is not a good idea at all as it will eventually stop absorbing nutrients. Lighting just about any other macroalgae 24/7 will result in it losing effectiveness fairly quickly and eventually dieing. I wish Randy's article would have showed Caulerpa and Chaetomorpha but I understand that he had to utilize the available studies.

If you want to utilize Caulerpa, rather than running it 24/7 a better approach is to keep track of Iodine and Iron levels and keep the population in check with regular pruning. Additionally, never prune Caulerpa in the refugium. Macroalgaes cannot get up and run away when an herbivore comes to predate on them. Most have developed a defense.....toxins (called secondary metabolites). You have to remember, that Caulerpa doesn't have eyes and when you prune it, it thinks a fish is attacking it. As a result, the Caulerpa will release it's toxins immediately. Different species of Caulerpa have differing amounts of these toxins but none of them are good, particularly if you are growing SPS. Additionally, Caulerpa spp is unicellular (i.e....the entire plant is ONE cell). When you prune, you aren't cutting part of the plant.....you are cutting THE plant.

Here's how you should prune Caulerpa spp. When you do your next waterchange save a bucket of old water. Lift then ENTIRE colony of Caulerpa out of your fuge and put it in the bucket of old water. Pinch off a good portion of the algae and throw it away. Allow the plant to stay in that bucket for at least a half hour (preferably an hour) to leach off the majority of the toxins. Then put the much smaller amount of Caulerpa back into your fuge.

 

I have ran about every type of algae in a fuge that you can have from the simple ball's Chaetomorpha to the higher alga's like the many different types of the Caulerpa.. I have yet to ever experience the problem with them going asexual. Set my 1st dedicated planted refugium up in about 1991 or so that after running algal scrubbers the previous several yrs before that.

I know the Chaetomorpha are suppose to never root or go asexual or attach to any substrates and are like tumble weed almost . But I also do not think they do as well of a jobs myself. But with this species as well with other I never prune them I'll just pull them out and feed some back to the tank and toss the rest. and let it regrow its self to the point of just doing the same thing over and over.

I recall in about 97 or so ? Its just a hobby to me and I'm not out to impress anyone But Mr. Farley started his first refugium and was on a site I used to go to not R/C that was not the home of the Grues as of then.. he was whining about my alga's won't do well what wrong??? Well I told him then to add Iron.. Oh man you should have heard the chuckles and laughing add a metal to a reef system you are a fool yada yada ..

Then he went searching answers and he found them in a Book By a guy named Tulloch guess what the next month after he applied what he had read he was all over the sites talking about his new research and his new data..

I learned of these systems and their critters from a lady marine Biologist Dr. Cathy Sullivan I think was her name she was at the Smithsonian and while doing some work there myself we talked and she was then in the process of setting up an algae scrubber. Thats where I leaned of the need for iron. And about what cause the plants and alga's to go asexual from stress and why they did it and her information is also what i based my fuge size and flow rates on. Then as it caught on Albert Thiel was the one who really explored the use of red and white mangroves in the sumps found the needed flow rates. I'm not a smart guy but I no some smart people

Hell the use of algae scrubbers is old school really And the refugium came shortly later but it did not catch on big time until the early 2000 or so. Not expensive enough and not much money to be made by the experts sponsors. I don't argue or C&P something i have read I only draw from my own experience that i have garnered over several yrs and listening to truly smart people.. who you would never see on a public board trying to impress people.. This stuff to me s Just a Hobby but my trade put me in some places to meet some truly smart people..

But if you would just pull or harvest the algae rather then pruning and then give them at least 10 hrs rest or just let them sleep and process there release their waste O'2 you will find that they will do a better Job with consuming the unwanted PO'4s and nitrates from the water.. As will good strong air pumps and a few stones they will also lower the PO4's and what ever the plants don't

Bottom line we use a fuge or algae scrubber for one reason to maintain more stable water parameters and if they can't do what they need to from lack of darkness then why bother.. Again every living thing that requires sunlight to exist also requires darkness ..

 

Sorry I missed that part Rick on your refug

I agree with what Tang has said and really do not like the idea of 24/7. Since it is common in this hobby and even in the terrestrial pant world, to run things 24/7, some have done a number of studies on it. These studies have shown it is not beneficial to go 24/7 and plants need a "dark" period, which is also pretty much common sense and what many reefers have seen first hand. In some transplant productions facilities, under artificial lighting conditions, 24/7 is desired to achieve higher production efficiency while reducing costs. However, such 24/7 lighting causes chlorosis and necrosis. But we are not dealing with tomatoes or fruits here. You are better off with reverse lighting.

 

Tang

I recall in about 97 or so ? Its just a hobby to me and I'm not out to impress anyone But Mr. Farley started his first refugium and was on a site I used to go to not R/C that was not the home of the Grues as of then.. he was whining about my alga's won't do well what wrong??? Well I told him then to add Iron.. Oh man you should have heard the chuckles and laughing add a metal to a reef system you are a fool yada yada ..

Then he went searching answers and he found them in a Book By a guy named Tulloch guess what the next month after he applied what he had read he was all over the sites talking about his new research and his new data.. .

Please provide such a link. And if you can not show such your talk is just gibberish. I don not buy your remarks and I doubt anyone else does either. And you most certainly are out to impress people with your sniffling remarks about Randy, otherwise you would not have made them. And Randy has read allot of Thiel stuff. Maybe I should invite Ranby over here for a talk and see where you go with your gibberish

As far as Albert Thiel goes I know him qutie well and we have been adding iron to reef tanks for plants since the mid 80's. And yes Randy started his tank 10 years ago he was beginner. Thiel has made many mistake in this hobby, as a so called expert and is why he is no longer in it.