Pics...You asked for them ...

I agree, he is just adding a sump. I add a sump 3 years later. Plus Protein Skimmers and Carbon Filters are always in debate if they need to be used, especially if no fish are present. I would actually get rid of the sponge filters on the power heads.

 

[quote author=David Guzman Jr link=board=Newbie;num=1102836376;start=0#9 date=12/16/04 at 13:42:23]Now my understanding is that 110 Lbs of live sand and 88lbs of live rock  (No doubt from the  Thousand Island area which is just miles NorthWest of Jakarta) are a semi decent biological filtration system on its own.  

I'm pretty sure the 4 corals and the 1 orange linkia star don't produce too much waste in the 110 gal of NSW.  Not to mention that there's equiptment on the way from the US.

His 2 powerheads on each side of the tank should be enough to move the water and provide a nice source of circulation. As for heat you can't jump the gun and say that just because he doesn't have a chiller his tank is a fish boiler. ( I control the temp in my tank by controlling the temp of the room it's in.    

As for the algae, it's normal for new tanks to experience algae blooms.  

And just so you know birdlady was complimenting his coconut wood stand.  

And if you don't like taking creatures from the sea and putting them in glass boxes, you're in the wrong hobby.

[/quote]

Haha!  Okay first...110lbs of sand is useless and if you know anything you should know that!  A sand bed is useless unless 6" deep.  So he shouldn't even be using sand.  Second, then he should have waited for the equipment to arrive...this hobby isn't about rushing.  Two powerheads do NOT provide enough circulation, if that was the case, everything in my tank would be dead...42 turn overs per hour.  Third...its not normal to have that much algae, actually I had no algae in my new tank.  Fourth...and?  Fifth...wrong again, its called farm raised or aquacultured.

Have a good one.

Mike

 

Well, sand can be decorative (and therefore, not useless). and ANY sand offers denitrification properties. You are referring to deep sand bed conversion of nitrate into nitrogen gas , and I have a 4 inch bed in my little fuge only that works wonders. DSB's fail over time so many of us choose NOT to have them in the display tank but we like the look of sand so we use a little.

There are MANY successful hobbiests that do not use skimmers, DSB's, or other "necessary" items on their systems.

All systems are different and have different requirements. There is no "right method" or "wrong method" if you have been in this hobby for any length of time, you would see how much can change over a couple years.

 

Birdlady...you couldn't be more wrong. Sorry to say. Not any amount of sand has denitrification properties. It has nothing to do with the sand. The purpose of a DSB is to have an area of anaerobic bateria...which basically means bateria that lives where oxygen is not present. If the sand bed is only 1-4" deep it can not possibly work for denitrification. A sand bed that is not used to convert nitrate into a gas is USELESS! Sand collects detritus and unless you are adding the proper animals to the tank on a yearly basis, ALL sand beds will fail. I am not sure where you get your info but maybe you should do a little more reading and Matt should have looked into your credentials more...

Yes there are many successful hobbiest without what you mentioned but they do NOT have long term success. And by success, I also mean algae free.

Of course things can change! That is a given. But before you to make the comments you are making without knowing, you should read and read some more, then try some new things on your own.

Mike

 

Ok. Look... you want to state what your comfortable with, fine... do it up.. but lets not take shots.
I've seen top shelf tanks with 4 inches of sand, 6 inches, 2 inches, no sand - it's not end all be all or the only piece of the puzzle. There are many things at play.

You seem to rely on 'animals' - great, whatever works for you - but I like 'animals' and  the siphon and it works for me. Tell me it's useless and I'll brush you off - it works for me! The only credentials you should worry about are your own. No shots here, ok? At 3reef, we generally have the humble feeling that we don't know everything in the world, we are still learning, and what doesn't work for us may work for someone else and we keep an open mind.
Enough said. Be cool. [smiley=smoking.gif]

 

MacnReef: <<Why did you set up the tank without all of the equipment?>>

You posted your first question well. Good start.

I didn't (nor don't) realize that I do not have the minimums for what is currently in the tank. I have done a LOT of reading re: DSB and there are many running WITHOUT anything more than powerheads.

I have adequate water flow and filtration for what I have living in the container ATT. Also, the algae bloom you foretold was expected, come, and gone. This is also a tank done with all LS, LR, and NSW. Basically cycled from the start. This may be a process that you are unfamiliar with. Judge not that which you have not experienced yourself yet are within the bounds of some accepted norm.

I too had issues with cycling a tank immediately. Well, it isn't quite immediate, but it is done and all I need now are some gardeners.

The tank is now two weeks old. The highest that the ammonia ever got was 0.50 ppm. It now reads less than 0.25 ppm (I have a hard time reading a green scale, could be 0.00), nitrite is 0.00 ppm, and nitrate is less than 5.0 ppm.  SG 8.2. Corals are happy campers. Tomorrow fish, in moderation.

David: Thanks for filling in the blanks. Heat. OK. I'm a USG civil servant and you guys are paying for my air conditioning. I have not put heaters in the tank because it stays right around 73 degrees.  That is on the bottom end of the heat scale, but I do plan on placing heaters in my sump when it gets here. Yes I know, slowly raise the temp.

I have not put the "crown" on the tank because I have to plumb over it and will deal with that issue at that time. I'm loosing about 0.5 gal of water a day now, to raise the heat will only increase that.

I do top ups from the bottled water that the embassy provides.

Consider this a educated experiment with a seasoned professional (my LFS) at the hand. I'm following his advice and everything has happened just as he said it would.

MacnReef (aka Mike): <<its called farm raised or aquacultured. >>
Please, I'm in Indonesia. Come to the third world. Your comment comes across as arrogant.

As it is, I am dealing with a Brit expat (I will break that out if I must knowing that you might not understand that termanology) who is a member of CITIES and does not deal with collectors who harvest endangered species or who use cyanide or explosives. I do not have that set of ethics in the local Jakarta market.

Maybe I should post some pics. And then maybe I shouldn't.

ANyway, he runs a clean and honest shop and it cost me 3-10 times to buy from him instead from the locals.

It is still much less than you pay. But I make that choice to do business with an ethical person. Yes, my rock is the real thing, so is my sand. Maybe that is why I only need 3 inches of sand.

Mike, maybe you are not a sand guy. That is OK, we still accept you. However, the purpose of a DSB is to do the job to the nitrates. That is where the rock takes over.

Rock On Dude!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Matt. We all have our successes. And we all have our failures. This is a place where we try to share those and maybe we will find the answer.

What was it? 42?

Can I get some Karma for not flaming back???? I need a hug.

Cheers,
Ray

 

I have 3" sand bed for over 3 years, no problems here. I think you are having harsh judgment as you read many different books and magazine and you will here hundreds of opinions. The reef hobby does not have 100 guarantee of any method. When i stared actually 12 years ago i was told i was crazy for getting rid of my under gravel filter! Then is was the Bio Wheel. Maybe in a year protein skimmers will be obsolete.

 

[quote author=Malachi link=board=Newbie;num=1102836376;start=15#16 date=12/17/04 at 05:35:52]Maybe in a year protein skimmers will be obsolete.[/quote]

Okay, now thats just crazy. lol

Ray, do as you wish...I just like to think of the health of the environment in which you are trying to replicate.

Matt...so the infamous Matt. I missed you bud. I really thought I was going to make it somewhere here on 3reef back in the day but never did. So I left and everyonce in awhile I come back and I do hold a little grudge... [smiley=bucktooth.gif] But you are right, keepin it cool.

Mike

 

Mike,

You are aware that there are very successful systems now running with no skimmers....aren't you?

There are 2 people in my reef club that have nice systems with the mud method.(several years running)

I am sure they mocked the removal of UGF's in the day

 

I still have my UGF, just incase it makes a come back like everything else from the 70s and 80s!!