Predator Tank Design Help

Hi 3reef,

I would like to setup my first large tank and would like to have some advice on making it workable. As the title says I would like to make part of it a predator tank. I understand the problems of ammonia spikes in these sorts of tanks so here is my idea to try to help deal with that.

I would like to setup at 200g tank with a shallow sand bed, live rock, and soft corals, anemones, paly's, zoa's, xenia's, and maybe a leather or two. Generally easy things to care for. As for animals in this tank I want to put a cat shark, an eel or two of some sort maybe a chain link or snowflake, a panther grouper, a marine beta, a puffer fish and a lion fish. On top of these I want to put some semi aggressive fish like damsels, clown fish, and wrasses. Now I know all these fish will make a lot of waste and there will be a huge risk of ammonia spikes and fish getting eaten. Thats why I will have relatively affordable fish that are all pretty tuff and fast. Maybe they will still become dinner I don't know.

Now how to deal with the waste. My plan was to try and replicate nature the best I can. So under the 200g tank will be a 90/100g long tank with a pile of volcanic rock at one end a sand/soil bed through out the bottom and sea grass growing in it. The water will flow into the lower tank through an auto siphon wave system thats kinda like a toilet flushing (can't remember the name of it). This will flush on top of the pile of volcanic rocks and flow through the grass bed. The rocks are semi exposed all the time. In the grass bed there will be lots of shrimp, snails, crabs, worms, maybe a sea cucumber and various small fish that fit with the environment. At the other end of the grass bed from the rocks will be a baffle and pump with a float switch hidden away behind a shroud. The idea here is to have a fish load that will keep the bacteria population high to help deal with the spikes from the predators. This tank will also be on display below the larger reef tank.

Now behind these two tanks not on display will be another 55g or so tank with a protean skimmer, phosphate reactor, wet/dry filter, carbon canister, mechanical canister filter, calcium reactor, and some areas for more macro algae.

So the water will flow out of the reef tank onto the rocks with the flush system. Then through the grass bed and over the baffles to the pump that will send it to the 55g filter tank. There it will go through multiple baffles that will send it through the different filtration systems and then eventually back to the reef tank.

So there is my basic plan. I have been thinking abut this in my head for awhile now and would like to get some feed back from people who have kept predators before and people who have setup large systems before.;D


Thanks,
Ken

 

Well Ken, here are a couple comments that you probably already expected:

-The 200 may still be too small for a Cat Shark depending on the dimensions. These do get over 3' long! Otherwise, usually shark tanks need to be made especially with them in mind, but I have no experience so can't help you there unfortunately.

-Panther Grouper is definitely too big for a 200; they need a ~300 gallon tank. Plus it will eat all of the smaller fish you mentioned.

-Depending on what eels and Lionfish you were thinking of, again, your smaller fish listed will become meals.

-Keeping Puffers with Lionfish is a no-no. Puffers will continuously pick at the fins of the LF believe it or not.

-Snowflake Eels can become quite belligerent as adults, sometimes going on killing sprees "just for fun". Just a warning. Again, I have never kept one, but based on other's experiences, I never will.

-If you are dead set on the larger aggressive fish, stay away from the smaller Clowns, Damsels, and Wrasses. Choose one or the other.

-A lot of macro-algae is definitely a good idea.

-Adding more fish to the system to keep the bio-load high is not a good idea IMO. As long as you have sufficient live rock, sand, and filtration, it should be able to handle the demand.

Those are it for now. All meant to be constructive criticism, so hopefully you see it that way

 

^ Marshall stated it perfectly.
Just want to add a Beta is not a good candidate for a tank with more aggressive fish, Betas are docile and shy IME.

 

Dood...back it up some...YOU are the one asking questions/opinions. If you seriously want to have a successful setup, you need to listen to peeps who have kept preds. Take the advice you've been given to heart...I know a 200 gal setup SOUNDS large, but based on your proposed stocking list, it's pretty small.

Your tank really is on the hairy edge of being too small to keep even the smallest, least active shark species, and you really need to have your ID straight on them, as you could end up with a larger fish than you were planning on.

FWIW, one of our tanks is a 7' x 2' x 2' 210 gal FOWLR, and I wouldn't consider keeping a shark in it if I were going to keep one. It houses medium-bodied lionfishes and an Inimicus stingfish (pop-eyed sea goblin) at the moment.

This is some very good info from a person who is as nuts about sharks as I am about venomous fishes:

"The most common shark in the industry is the brown banded carpet shark, often mislabeled as cat shark. Their eggs are frequently offered too. Though available and inexpensive, they are a poor choice for most due to their adult size.

The true cat sharks are a diverse group. The cold water cats are small and perfect for large home aquaria but need temps in the 50s to 60s to thrive. Chain, izu and cloudy cats are all available as tank bred specimens and should do well in a 240 gal. The tropical cats such as the coral, marbled and Bali are also good choices but grow larger and are best housed in a round tank. These are hardy, attractive, and affordable. They are all nocturnal like most benthic sharks so you are unlikely to observe them during the day.

Probably the best species for the square tank home aquaria is the Papua New Guinea Epaulette. This species is a "walking" shark, and are used to rockwork and able to navigate small spaces. They are extremely hardy, tolerate temporary shifts in water quality, low oxygen saturation and brief periods out of water."

Another thing regarding puffers and sharks is that puffers often attack the eyes of benthic shark species, as well as the rest of them.

I am in agreement about the SFE...I kept one for close to 15 years, and once it reached about 18" or so, it got REALLY nasty, so much so, that I had to remove it to its own setup. Nice fish, but not worth losing tankmates over, IMHO.

As for the setup...know that true seagrasses require not only intense lighting, but at least a 4" sandbed that is very mature. You might do better with a "simulated" grassbed using Caulerpa prolifera, which is often used for this purpose.

Be careful with lava rock, as some of it tends to leach metals into the tank. Whatever you plan to use should be soaked and the water tested to see what's leaching out of it. Aragonite might be a better choice here, and has the added bonus of helping to stabilize the pH of the setup.

 

Thanks for all the information and setting me straight. I don't see people get flamed on this board. I should have known better.

So back to the topic.

If I up this to a 300g round tank that would be really cool and allow all around viewing from two different rooms and I could hide all the plumbing in the rock work.

As for the animals in the tank, are there any problems with Chain Link eels in an aquarium like this? Anyone have experience with them?


What are your thoughts on the Soft corals and anemone in a tank like this?

Are there any other fish that I haven't mentioned that would be a cool addition?

Thanks for all your help.

 

Have you considered Rabbitfish? I don't have any experience with them, but I always thought a pair of them would be cool in a pred tank. They're "peaceful" but since they're venomous, I would think other fish wouldn't bother them. Maybe someone else with Rabbitfish experience can chime in?

 

anglers, lion fish, moray.. endless supply of gold fish.

 

I know that was a joke, however, goldfishes are one of the worst foods you can feed a SW fish...honestly. Any Cyprinid (basically, carp) isn't a good long-term food. Rosy Reds also fall into this category.

The best thing you can do is wean the fish onto a varied diet of non-living foods such as SW fish flesh, crustaceans, mollusks (bivalves, cephalopods), etc.

 

A round tank does sound very cool. I don't have much experience with various predators. I think the advice you get from Greg and Renee' of Lionfish Lair is top notch!

I can chime in that I think it would be difficult to keep your tank's parameters clean enough to keep an anemone. Anemones need pristine water conditions similar to SPS. You may be able to do some very hardy soft corals such as mushrooms and Kenya trees depending on your lighting.

 

Sorry I should have clarified, I was joking but I'm also new to this but a FOWLER with exactly this trio and a grouper were what sparked my interest in the hobby. He feeds his tank pellets, and everything that's on sale at the seafood department or whatever he gets out spearfishing (hog, mutton, mackerel, cuda) chopped into chunks. He still drops a gold fish or bass (peacock and large mouth are everywhere here).

I thought of having a predator tank with that trio but research shows anglers will eat lions and then you end up with a species specific tank and thats not cool.