Research, research and now questions!

Greetings all,

This is my first post and I want to start out by saying THANK YOU for all of the great conversations in this forum. I have been reading for a while now and have learned that there are MANY different ways of doing things and that everyone has an opinion and my job is to read, absorb, contemplate and come up with my own opinion.

Okay so this will be my first saltwater tank, however, I have had small freshwater tanks in the far past and enjoyed them.

I am looking at a 55 or 75 gal tank with a 40 or 55 sump\refuge. I will DIY the sump\refuge, rock, tank stand, overflow, in-tank holes and all plumbing. I think a 10 gal quarantine tank would be good, thoughts? I am not sure how many gph I need on a submersible pump for circulation, so I am looking for suggestions. I also want a protein skimmer and am looking for suggestions.

I want at minimum fish with live rock and the wife would like a starfish or two. A few questions:
1. If you put starfish in with fish does that make it a reef tank or do you need to add coral to get that title?
2. Do starfish add to the bio-load in that I have to add it somehow to my total fish inches?
3. These are the fish the family wants, will they get along if I put them in the tank in the following order with a few weeks between them: cleaning crew, 2 False Percula Clownfish, 1 Hippo Tang, 1 Yellow Tang (understand this tang might not play well) and after a year a Blue Starfish and Red Starfish.
4. For water, we have a whole house filter that removes everything from the water, I believe trace elements as well (need to check this). If this is true will I have to start adding trace elements while I cure the tank?

Tanks in advance to everyone for their help! ;D

Joe

 

For those of you joining us that are new to the hobby - the best piece of advice you'll get around here as a saltwater newbie is 3Reef's slogan
"Go slow, let it grow."
And for those experianced hobbyists joining us - it's still good advice
good luck and post pics soon

 

Welcome, and one of the best hello threads I've seen because of the above. All to often new people here get bombarded with knowledge from very good sources and some even contradict the other leading the poster to pull their hair! I have used the search function on this site far more than actually asking questions just to come up with the solution to my question my own way. Nothing wrong with questions though I'm just a researcher and love using what I've learn t along the way to help others.

1: A starfish is the same as just having a FOWLR (fish only with live rock) you'll definitely want coral to obtain the reefer title lol. Not really something you can put on a shirt is it?

2: I would say minimally but would wait to have others chime in I'm no starfish expert. Though I know that they can be difficult to keep from what Ive read.

3: That order would prob be fine in a 75 maybe pushing it. It depends or how good of a skimmer you have and biological filtration. Tangs are air hogs and they put out larger amounts of waste because of there size. Plus they need good swimming room.

4:Unless the home filter is RO or RO/DI I would imagine that there are still things in the water that need to be removed, including phosphates and harmful metals. I would probably invest in an RO/DI system if this isn't what you have. As for the trace elements you are referring to in order to build and sustain corals, these will be added through your water changes from your salt, and dosing if you get heavy in coral.

Welcome and enjoy and read as you have already done, there is a wealth of knowledge on these forums to be had with the press of a few keys. Use it and do as you stated above, decide what best suits your situation and needs and adapt.

 

Hey Joe, nice of you to join us

here are the answers... if you need them explained further just let me know

1. reef refers to a tank that has fish, live rock, and some type of invert in it (shrimp, crabs, starfish) But about the starfish; I would recommend not getting a linkia to start (there mortality rate is super high in new tanks, something like 98%) Other starfish include brittle stars and such.

2. starfish do not add to your bioload, infact most starfish actually help reduce your bioload because they are detrivores. Except linkias, they feed of of the bacteria on the live rock so they in a sense do decreases your filtration possibilities.

3. that order should be good... might want to explore some other types like wrasses and such, they make great reef fish! Just make sure the yellow tang is added last. I would go with a 75 gallon if you plan to have a linkia and make sure you have plenty of rock for it to feed on... wouldnt recommend two though. However, my fish store sells linkias that are half red and half blue so maybe you can keep your eyes peeled for one of them.

4. no, you will get the trace elements in your salt mix so there is no need to add them at this time (especially this early) But the ro/di unit that you have is going to be very good in keeping unwanted phosphates out of your tank.

 

Welcome Joe!! Sounds like your starting well by reading and researching, I'm sure you'll get alot of response to your questions.I think most people consider a reef tank as one with corals.I also think you will probably end up adding some corals before long and will have your reef tank.It's not that hard really,just keep reading and learning.Most starfish and other inverts do not add much to the bioload as compared to fish,however,the blue Linkia which you might be referring to seldom survive long in aquariums.Your choice of fish is not bad,the tangs may be fine since they have different body shapes,they will however outgrow a 55 or 75 gal. tank,especially the Hippo.A six foot long tank is recommended for tangs to give them ample swimming space.You probably need to give some more info on your water filter for someone to answer about it's usefullness for aquarium use,but watever water you use with a good quality salt mix should give you all the elements you'll need to start your tank.You shouldn't need to use additives of any kind.

 

Welcome to 3reef.

Looks like the questions have been well covered so I'll just say kudo's to you for researching! Keep doing it and btw I don't think the questions ever end.

 

Welcome to 3reef!

1. Corals are what makes it a reef tank.
2. Starfish will help keep it low over the long run because of their habit of eating detritus. People here mentioned that starfish can be a bit tough to keep; you may want to consider a brittle/serpent star instead to start off, then go for the starfish proper a bit later on. I know you can get red serpent starfish, but they (serpent/brittle stars in general) kinda stay in the rocks and don't move around during the day.
3. You can easily do those fish, while they're small, in a 55 or 75 gallon. Once the blue tang gets bigger, though, you might need something bigger. This isn't because of the bioload, it's because of the potential crowding of decently big fish (the tangs) that swim constantly and quickly. That's really something that opinions vary on, though.
The brittle stars can go in earlier than 1 year with success, if you decide to go that route. I don't know enough about starfish proper to help with them, though.
4. Most salt will put in trace elements in at least decent proportion to the amount you need. Your whole-house filter is likely an RO membrane or carbon. You should look into what type it is to find out whether you want to get an RO or RODI unit.

 

Welcome to 3reef Joe!

I think most of your questions about the fish and starfish have been answered... I would only add that I added a sand sifter star to my tank early on and it's been almost a year and it's still doing well - as far as I can tell anyways. It hasn't died. They're not the coolest looking tho, just a mottled white and brown thing. Still, it gets as much or more attention than my clown fish and corals.

On the water filter: There are too many "whole house" filter systems on the market to say "it's probably RO" without pictures, model numbers, etc. In my experience RO/DI is the least common "whole house" filter system. Most common is a simple sediment/carbon filter, either with or without a water softener. No matter what kind of filter you have if it uses a water softener or passes finished water through copper pipes you probably want to tap it off directly from the filter.

if it is RO/DI filtration make sure you have new membranes, fresh DI beds, and clean cartridges installed before you use it for reef water. Too many of those whole house systems get ignored for years and wind up polluting the water worse than it comes in.

If it's NOT an RO/DI unit (DI is optional, but very beneficial) then I would really suggest investing in a small 75gpd RO/DI system from one of our sponsor companies - I'm very pleased with my Spectrapure MaxCap DI unit.

And for unsolicited opinion about why we use RO/DI water...

For a FO or FOWLR tank many people just use conditioned tapwater, similar to many freshwater tanks... i.e. tap water + chemical to remove chlorine/chloromine + salt mix. For a reef most of us use and recommend Reverse Osmosis / Deionized water (RO/DI) this is mostly because we want absolute control over what goes in our tanks, and more to the point we're trying to avoid trace elements such as phosphates, copper, and silica which can cause bigger problems in a reef tank than other set ups. Most municipal water supplies will be low in these, and while most municipal water supplies are very clean and safe, the trace impurities are almost never zero. It's just one less thing to worry about when umpteen thousands of dollars have been invested in a tank.

Again, welcome!

-Doug

 

Thanks all for the information. I really appreciate it and look forward to many more hours of reading, research and questions.

Joe

 

Welcome to 3Reef. I hope you enjoy your stay.

I'm glad you've noted this. Sometimes people merely parrot what they've read before but don't know "why" their answer is correct other than they've read that before. There have been polls before where 20 people all voted the same way and maybe there was one dissenting member. Most of the time, I agree with the dissenting member. If you want to enjoy this hobby, don't just get an answer.....get the REASONS FOR THAT ANSWER.

One of my favorite sayings is, "There is more than one way to skin a cat". The important thing is to understand YOUR system and know the pros and cons of how you've chosen to do things. There also tends to be a predilection to believe that the way one has set up their tank is the best. Some people stubbornly cling to the belief their way is best even if evidence is shown to the contrary. I prefer not to fight with those people....I think it's just better to help them tweak their systems to maximize what they have.