Super Ultra Basics

I've recently introduced myself in the "Say Hello!" forum, and I have some questions I'd like to ask the lot o' you.

I'm in the process of gathering up my dry goods with the idea of starting to cycle my system shortly after the holidays. I'm finding that reliable information on this sort of stuff is the most difficult to find. I already have a good idea of where I'm going to buy live rock, base rock, cleanup crews, etc., but I have no idea what to be looking for in a stand. I guess at the moment I have 5 primary questions/issues:

1) I already have an aquarium. It's a 55-gal and I'm trying to figure out what to put it on. I've looked around the forums and found some great info on DIY stands, but I am not much of a DIYer. Whenever I build anything out of wood, I typically end up spending more than I would have if I just bought something pre-made due to my multiple screw-ups. And I've never once built anything I'd trust to support a 650-pound box of water. For those of you that have a stand you bought commercially, where did you buy it? What did it cost? Should I trust something from Petco/Petsmart? For the record, I'd like to be able to keep my sump immediately below my display tank.

2) Lighting. Just generally, lighting. LEDs and T5s and metal halides, oh my! I'd like to keep both corals and fish, and it's hard for me to determine what I need for lighting. I understand that some of this boils down to personal preference, but based on the research I've done so far it seems that, price-wise, T5<LED<metal halide? Does that jive with your experience? If so, am I screwing things up going with T5. I have a friends who's a reefer currently "on a break," and he says T5 is fine. Is he right? My budget isn't limitless, but if there's a huge advantage to more expensive lighting, I can bear that financial burden.

3) How necessary is a refugium? I realize they're a fairly modern addition to the reef-keeping world, but it's unclear to me what their advantages are and what the disadvantages of not having one are.

4) The engineer in me wants to build things from the base up. Using that logic and that logic alone, I would introduce corals before fish. From what I'm gathering, I should go about this the other way around, right?

5) At some point, I'd like a clown fish. And at some point I'd like to give the little guy an anemone to call home. My understanding is that anemones should wait until some extended period of time (6 months to a year) in the future when I've gotten things pretty well stabilized. Is my understanding correct?

Any help on any of these would be much appreciated!

 

1) Check out petco, petsmart, or wherever.. 55 gallons are pretty typical tanks, so I'm sure you'll be able to find a decent stand for a moderate price

2)What types of light you get depends on what types of corals you plan on keeping. T5's will support anything you want to put it HOWEVER their colors won't be as bright as they would under halides. In my experience, I started with a 4 bulb T5 fixture and had sps, lps, and softies under it.. A few months later I got the sps bug and bought an odyssea250w halide fixture w/ 4 T5 supplements for 200 bucks on ebay and it works great. There are definitely fair priced fixtures for whatever type you plan on getting, you just have to do some looking around. So if you plan on keeping sps and other light needy corals, then I would get a halide from the get go.

3)Refugiums aren't necessary at all. I don't have one at all and my tank is fine. Although, adding a refugium adds more water to your system, giving you more room for error. Meaning your creatures will be more forgiving if your waters a little off. Along with that it hides a lot of equipment that would otherwise be in your display, if that bothers you. But IMO if you keep on your **** then its not essential by any means.

4)You can add whatever you want first or hell both at the same time, it shouldn't matter too much. Just make sure your tank is completely cycled before you start adding stuff.

5)I have 2 clowns and after about a month owning them I bought a bubble tip anemone.. Neither of them paid any attention at all to it for like 3-4 months, until one day I saw my female wiggling around in the tentacles. She hardly ever leaves the nem's vicinity now.

 

1.) You would be fine with something from Petco/Petsmart as far as a stand is concerned. You can always order one of their sites, or try craigslist. As long as it looks structurally sound, you will be fine. You can opt for a nicer stand from many places online as well as your LFS, but in all likelihood they are the same construction, just different woods. That is all personal preference.

2.) Lighting is mostly a choice of pros and cons, they all have ups as well as downs.
T5 is my personal preference as you can choose different bulb combinations to get exactly the color spectrum you are looking for. With enough bulbs (4 would be fine on a 55g) you can keep anything you want. From softies all the way to SPS and clams.

Medium monthly running cost and medium initial as well as long term bulb costs. No shimmer effect. Great for overall.

LED is a whole different story. Usually great for softies and LPS, mixed results with SPS. Very expensive to start up, however very cheap to run and 0 bulb replacement costs. Intense shimmer effect, and often color "spotlighting." Some people love this, hence the new trend moving this way, some hate it, as it takes away from the calmness of the tank. For your tank it is really a matter of spread and there are just too many options to give you a specific number. Start another thread if you are going to go this way and I am sure you will get a great response on which direction to head.

Metal Halides are great for SPS and clams, a bit overkill for anything less. Very cheap to start up, however extremely expensive to run monthly and annual bulb replacements. Some shimmer but not as intense as LED. You would be fine with 2x 150 watt metal halides. However you only get 3 color choices for spectrum with these bulbs. (10k, 14k, 20k) this may seem restrictive, but most do not go with anything else anyways.

3.)A fuge is really not a "necessity" but you will see a HUGE benefit from one. It provides, extra live food to tank in a steady stream, as well as providing a large place to grow unsightly algae that provide intensive nitrate reduction. There are other options available to replace a fuge, but none out there will do as good of a job as a true refugium option. In general a tank that does not have a fuge, will often have a lot more algae trouble than one that does.

4.) Coral need nutrients to thrive. If you have a system that is so clean (no waste) coral will starve and die. You can feed the tank with many products out there specifically for coral to negate this problem if you wish. However, the fish will provide this waste for you and typically the fish are MUCH easier to start out with. Its really a balancing act, you cannot have a lot of waste or things die, too little however and things starve.

5.) Yes. I see people all the time who do not wait and the mortality rate is significantly higher. Nems are notorious for being difficult to keep in captivity and a longer well established system is a requirement. If you wish to have them pair, I would recommend waiting until you are ready to do both together. Some clowns, usually tank raised, will NOT pair with a nem if they have been in the tank long before the nem arrives. They have a home established by then, and usually don't wish to move.

 

Thanks!

Thanks so much, guys. Pretty much exactly answered my questions. Still a little unclear on lighting, but I'm continuing to research.

 

If you let us know what exactly (type wise, Softies, LPS, SPS?) then we can give you a more exact answer on lighting.

 

Thinking I'll stick with LPS and softies for now, so it seems like T5 is a totally legit option, which is what I think I'll go with.

Totally unrelated timing issue: I'm hoping to go with 45 lbs. of Fiji live rock from liveaquaria and 45 lbs. of base rock and start cycling it shortly after the holidays. I'm wondering about adding the first cleaning crews and fish. Obviously, cycle times vary, but I don't want to get a tank cycled and then have nothing to sustain the bacteria, so I'd like to get some livestock in there ASAP after the cycle. Does it make sense to buy a hardy first fish at the same time as the rock and quarantine it while the tank cycles?

Also, obviously it doesn't make sense to add detritus cleaners before we have fish (or does it?). But what about algae cleaner crews? Should I get one of those in before or around the same time as fish numero uno? Before? After? Also, are there any general guidelines for quarantine these sort of inverts (snails, crabs, shrimp, etc.) or should I just quarantine them as I would a new fish?

Thanks again, guys.

 

You could probably save yourself some money and get a larger proportion of base rock. 15 to 20 pounds of live rock would seed the rest of your rock just fine.

ReefCleaners.org sells really nice base rock for two bucks a lb and free shipping over thirty pounds.

I ordered my cleanup crew of mixed snails when my diatoms showed up which also was the end of my cycle. As far as QT them, idk if others do, but I haven't.

 

Probably a good choice in lighting given your desired livestock choice. So long as you have a high quality bulb set, the fixture is not really going to make a huge difference. A current nova extreme would probably be a great option for you. Also pretty much any of these bulb makers are considered upper end, but I think the community favorite is ATI.

http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_Fluorescent/Bulbs/54_Watt/
(Please consider your wattage may vary depending on the tank size, but I was assuming 48"L)

Good call on the mixed rock. You could even get more dry and less live if you wish. It really won't effect cycle time much and could save you some cash.

You don't really have to worry too much about things starving off and dying. Bacteria die off is what starts the cycle, if this finishes, and some starves you have more die off and the cycle is continued. For piece of mind if you don't have livestock just sprinkle a bit of flaked fish food or something in there to sustain your life in the tank. As it breaks down you'll get Ammonia>Nitrite>Nitrate and continue the nitrogen cycle just fine. If you are planning to quarantining all fish then you could definitely do that during the cycle period. (should be about the same amount of time 4-6 weeks) Just make sure the tank is completely cycled before putting him into that system. However, I really would not go this route, it is unnecessary and going slow in this hobby is what makes long term success IMO.

I would for the most part put in your full CuC at once. Everything poops, even the snails. Snail graze algae, poop, and detritus eaters deal with that. Again, you could always offer a tiny bit of sustaining food if you desired.

Usually it goes like this Nitrogen cycle is started>Cycle finishes>CuC is added and algae is dealt with>system starts to stabilize >1st fish>system re-stabilizes>fish load increases with additions.

I have never quarantined any inverts, never had a problem with it. Always just drip acclimate and go.

Good luck!

 

Again, thanks so much guys. While I understand being well-informed is the name of the game, the sheer volume of information can be overwhelming. I appreciate it.

 

Glad to help! Good luck!