Trying a different source

HI,
I visit a few other forums and read alot on that reefkeeping.com about how to maintain water quality thru the use of mag chloride and calcium carbonate and other ways to mix up Kalkwasseur for calcium. Aging our seawater.
Its a very complex set of events to make up additives for our tanks.
I was also reading about the effects of softcorals on water quality and the use of carbon to help reduce some of the toxins they give off into the water.
I found this bulk source of carbon thats lab quality, hummmm I work in a Lab so that sparked some interest.
I ordered a couple pounds of that Activated carbon for 9 bucks.
what I got was couple pounds of Lab grade activated carbon used to purify water in R/0 & D/I water systems this carbon has the ability to absorb alot for a longer time due to its high grade quality (Note: its very fine may need a filter bag to contain)
He also sent me sample of Recipe #1CALCIUM,Baked Alkalinity,Mag Chloride. Mag Sulfate.
If you have read that article about making up sea water buffers on the reefkeeping.com this material is listed. This is the answer to my question why dosen't someone sell this stuff.
Another big minus is that many of the synthetic saltwater companies use Yellow Prussiate Soda as a Anti-caking,YPS is a form of Cyanide and can be activated by UV light. That can kill more than inverts.
Another wonderful additive to synthetic salt to prevent the water from being cloudy is EDTA ( EthyleneDiamineTetraceticAcid) another chemical we are dosing our fish tanks with who knows long term effects, and Randy Holmes did a study on chemicals in synthetic salts and the long term effects of dosing without any exporting of the chemical, it was very bad after a year.This may be the cause an effect of that sudden crash that occurs after having a healthy system for 24 months no problems and then everything starts to die off.
So if your looking for Lab grade reagents and carbon visit that gettankedaquariums.com and see if there's anything you may need for the KH,CA,Carbon Activated,MagCL,Strotium,K Iodide,Borate.
Seems like its one of the better ways to maintain a healthy system free of additives, more like the real thing and less synthetic.
Doug

 

Hey Chap!

Just my 0.02$$: EDTA is not toxic!!!

It is used to trap divalent ions (like Mg2+ and Ca2+), therefore it's effect (if it is applied in a reasonable amount -> like in many synthetic salts) can be cancelled by addition of excess of Mg2+ and Ca2+ in the form of carbonates or hydrocarbonates( CaCO3 / MgCO3 or Mg(HCO3)2/Ca(HCO3)2) - which is naturally the case in highly concentrated synthetic salt mixtures. Companies that prepare salts have got established labs and they can't come up with a recipes for salt water like that...!

I truly agree that people have tendency to 'PIMP" their aquaria. For example:

UV sterilizers: cool piece of equipment , we use them in our biotechnology labs to study enhanced aging of different bacterial and human cells!!! The really funny thing is that we use 11W irradiation that is perfectly the same as applied in the most of the aquaristic UV sterilizers ! The aging is obtained via UV-activeted oxygen free radicals ! And that is the same way you sterilize your water! Now consider the effect on Your beautiful/colourful fish taking into account the fact that some of people DO NOT SWITCH OFF UV STERILIZERS!!! The same principle applies to ozone generators ! At the cost of clear water You introduce unnatural oxidative stress...

Many of the colour boosters/water enhancers will simply interact and cross-react with the chemicals in the tank and form so-called xenobiotics -> chemical compounds that are biologically active and favourable but after small modification are dangerous and toxic. In other words: common sense, common sense and once again common sense are the most important requirements in this hobby... AMEN! :2thumbsup

 

Hey! I would like to get "couple pounds of that Activated carbon for 9 bucks."

Where do I order from?

THX

Scott

 

There is a guy up here in Canada that does sell all the components you listed. Shipping is the killer.
I have always found sources of Alk Buffers after some help from Tangster and Amcrrig
Baking soda and Boraxo

J

 

only suggestions

HI,
I have been reading about the toxic effects of synthetic sea water, and have decided to try this concept for a while,
one is to mix the salts without the calcium in a trash can with a pump, then mix up the calcium in a gallon of water and add it too the salt solution after it has mixed for 24 plus hours in the holding tank.
This seems like alot of trouble but when we mix synthetic salt water with the calcium in it its nearly a saturation of subtances hence the cloudy water.
another plus for the mix is if you need calcium add only what you need in my case its to high already.
Shipping isn't a problem for me cause he ships ground my carbon and the 15 pound of free sample he sent was only 6 bucks.
Ditto for mag cause mine seems to stay to high.
He offers MagCL versus Mag Sulfite or epsons salt.
His buffer mixes can be adjusted easiy to either his Kalkwasseur or his mix2 for buffer.I like being able to adjust the desired effects without over dosing everything not needed.
So check it out and see if you would like to try some organic sea water versus synthetic.
PS I use carbon only when I think I need it due to the organic toxins being released by my softies, they can actually suppress coraline growth a couple table spoons of carbon in a filter bag is all you need, too much and you can leach trace elements an burn your corals due to light changes.
what I do know is my 140 gal tank in the living room had a cup of carbon added to a magnum filter and the water is clearer than after I do a water change,and my Africans started spawning overnight use carbon only when needed for dissoved organics and the freshy tanks are a pain to clear due to wood in the water and waste urates.
Just a suggestion for interest and conversation.
PS I would try and see if your salt has that stabilizer in it that can become cyanide, even if you don't use UVA filter most of our high intensity lights can generate enough uva/uvb to activate the cyanide if the salt has the yellow stuff.
doug

 

So what base salt are you going to use. As most Aquarium salts come pre-mixed with buffers?

I know a lot of people including myself that use Calcium and Alk buffers in their make up water to correct the short comings of commercial made aquarium salts.

J

 

thats a good question

Hi,
he has a base salt mixs of only trace elements and salt you then only add what you have checked in your water testing, or premixed bags of buffers, calcium, mag. and borin strotium as needed.
Most mixes come pre-made with different amount of differnt things you may not need.
I will never use his mag sulfite, cause there's afew articles about the negative effect of sulfite being added and not removed from the water column this can with time reach a rather high level . say 10 mos or so.
Ron shimeck and other have addressed this, another good article was the post about synthetic salts adding things like copper, zinc, large amounts of cloride. Its real hard to manufactor large amounts of sea salt and not use machines that can leach metal into that salt. There's been alot of studies on trace metals in sea salts, heck every vender seems to follow a differnt mix of calcium one vender may have 200mg and another 400 and when you mix it in the water how much is lost to precip during the inital mixing.
If you keep adding it will eventually reach a level that may cause supression of inverts and other corals.
SO its more work but may have some positive effects on you animals.
Many research level aqquariums follow this practice of testing the water and then only adding whats needed.
Doug

psps we all have DI water systems to only add metal in the Sea SALTS we pay our money for.

 

In both your post you say 'He' is that Ron Shimeck.

there have been 1000s of Salt comparisons done with the industry standard salts and they always come out very scary. the biggest problem is for the average aquarist it is difficult to get their hands on the base elements. I'm sure more would do it if it was more redly available. But even the base minerals have been processed through machines, if that is where the foreign not wanted metals come from this does not eliminate that source.

Good point through out Doug. do you have links to your articals you have read

J

 

I still think it's funny that everyone thinks all carbon is the same. Richard Harker proved this years back. GRANULAR ACTIVATED CARBON PET SUPPLIES DOG CAT FISH

One of my partners kept asking me why my SPS tank water was so clean and I always avoided answering the question. Finally, one day I said, "Steve, I'm not using your bulk Kent carbon.....I'm using carbon that's actually intended to be used underwater".

If you look at my link, you'll see how poorly Kent carbon performs. It does so bad because it's really a vapor phase carbon vs a liquid phase carbon.

 

here's some links

HI,
Here's some links my work PC has such a stong firewall it makes it hard for me to do anything

TO Tanks supplies
"Welcome to Get Tank Aquariums Saltwater Aquaculture Facility and Home of Saltwater Correct Products. Get Tanked Aquariums started a saltwater aquaculture facility and delveloped Saltwater Correct product line back in "2000". We propagated many diffe

the making of Buffers for saltwater systems
An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Synthetic Sea water mixes
The Toxicity of Some Freshly Mixed Artificial Sea Water; A Bad Beginning For A Reef Aquarium by Ronald L. Shimek, Ph.D. - Reefkeeping.com

the problems with water quality
It's (In) The Water by Ronald L. Shimek, Ph.D. - Reefkeeping.com

here's the complete water chem link on the forum,its a lot of reading but its based on testing and actual results of testing cause and effect.
Reefkeeping Online Magazine - Chemistry
The one really common ground problem is everything is fairly new to this science and many ideas are still being formed, most pet store can't afford to have people learning of the problems found with some salt mixes, and their shortcomings, they will go broke if people find out the truth about many generic salt mixes being touted as the gold standard of saltwater systems. There's a rather large mark up by the vender due to shipping cost, and profit margin. My favorite LPS is thinking about selling his entire store, I asked him why #1 shipping cost and high mortality of animals that have been shipped.
He received rather large shipment of peppermint shrimp 5 large bags, all DOA and that was with overnight, yes he will recoup some of the money, but it’s hard to recover shipping cost.
Many vendors are becoming more and more sloppy with their animals and cutting corners on insulation and cool packs if needed.
HE said it’s not easy to recoup your losses without some attrition, how many animals die those first weeks they are never covered by the Vendor.
The day may come where many saltwater keeper may need to have clubs locally to ensure reasonable cost thru trading of animals for many species.
Another problem is the regulation is becoming more difficult as to shipping exotics across federal and state lines.
It’s real hard to sell saltwater animals at a profit, without gouging abit on the daily high use items.
I work in a medical lab and the cost of maintaining reagent grade water has gone sky high. My water system is overworked due to contamination of City water with heavy metals, depending on your location silica is another problem that requires a rather expensive tandem of triple dionizers and recirc pump to achieve a near zero silica. It just can't be done with simple systems.
So anything you do to keep metal out of your tanks is a plus, even if you run test it may be falsely low cause most biological creatures absorb metals as soon as they hit the tank and the measured levels are low but the bioload may be to almost toxic.