What about Ammonium chloride?

Jay's thread on LR curing got me thinking. There must be a better way to preserve more of the biodiversity present on and in the rock when it arrives. As I stated in the other thread even after doing everything by the book(s) (Paletta, Tullock, and Kurtz) after a few weeks there was nothing left but a few macro alga's and a bristle worm on the 90 lbs of LR I'd had shipped overnight. It's been several months now and the only other thing that's appeared are some tiny tube worms. Am I just not waiting long enough? Or is that all that survived the curing process? Is it possible that that's all there was to begin with?

When I started with FW some 15 years ago the guy at the LFS sent along a bag of gravel from one of his tanks with my first fish to seed the bio-filter. Over the years I've lost count of how many new tanks I've set up without even a hint of ammonia or nitrite showing up just by using some gravel, plants, filter media, water, whatever from an established system then stocking the tank slowly.

Anyway, I was wondering if anybody has any thoughts on this method:

I know this isn't a new idea, one of the books I have touches on it but doesn't go into any detail. I wish I had tried it anyway.

What would happen if you set up a bare tank with a protein skimmer, wet/dry filter, and one of those coiled denitrators and seed it with bacteria from an established aquarium and feed it Ammonium chloride (NH4Cl) to build up the colonies of bacteria before you put any LR in it?

How much Ammonium chloride would the bacteria have to be able to consume in say a 24 hour period to handle the bio-load of say 45 lbs of uncured LR?

How much would you need? An ounce? A pound?

Would you use pharmaceutical grade, lab grade? Is Sal ammoniac the same thing?

Can you use the stuff from the photo supply store? From the hardware store?

Anybody here used this method? Know anybody that has? Is it feasible?

Any input on this would be greatly appreciated.

Ted

 

Oh yeah, and would there be an advantage to maintaining pH, Alkalinity, and Calcium while waiting for the tank to cycle?

If this subject has already been discussed to death maybe somebody could link me to the thread. Thanks
Ted

 

Ted,

Firstly, my definition of 'live' rock is rock that has been collected from the ocean that still has life inside and outside.

Over here I can get rock into my tank, from Queensland or WA, in about 6-8 hours. The rock when I get it still has coral fragments etc on the surface, and most of that stuff recovers fairly quickly once it gets into a tank.

From what I have read the problem over there is generally the time it takes to get the rock from the collection point to your tank and also the care that is taken.

If all the organisms on the outside of the rock are dead then why would anyone bother using live rock for all the rock work?

A far better idea is what you describe and what I, and others have been advocating for quite a while. All you need is enough 'dead' rock to suit whatever you think looks nice and a seed. That seed can be some sand from another tank or simply one piece of live rock. As long as you start the biology , it will take care of itself.

You can add ammonia if you want to There was even a guy who peed into his tank to start the cycle. Once it has started however there is no real need for you to continue the feeding of Ammonia.

I don't think there is much use worrying about the other factors like Alk and Calc etc until the initial cycle is over.

John

 

Thanks for the reply John.

So maybe I was just expecting too much from the rock to begin with? All this time I thought I killed everything. :

For the sake of adding some (any) biodiversity to my tank what should I do? It sounds like buying more LR and putting it in a cycled system would just be a waste of time then. I've seen these biodiversity "packs" for sale on the internet, snails that supposedly breed like rabbits, one outfit sells bristle worms, and another sells bristle worm traps! I see at the LFS a 20lb bag of "live sand" for 25 bucks that I don't for one minute believe is going to add anything to my tank but sand. Here I have a mail order catalog that has a 20lb box of "live sand" that claims to be "teeming with beneficial worms and crustaceans", it's 75 dollars plus shipping. I asked the guy at the LFS the other day if I could get some of the stuff off the bottom of the tank they were curing rock in and he told me "Oh, we don't sell that". I guess he misunderstood me, I didn't want to buy it. :-/

What do those of us that live in the middle of the desert without the ways and means to collect our own critters do? Would there be any advantage to getting the 75 dollar box of live sand? Or maybe I should get the cheaper stuff and seed it with some GARF grunge? Or should I just forget about all those little critters and start thinking about getting some corals?

Ted

 

Ted,

Do you have a Marine Aquarium Society/Club near you that you can join. If you can that is a great way of getting some 'live 'sand as members are normally only too willing to give/swap some.

As for buying a 20lb box of live sand, it's not something that I would do, IMO it's better to try to just get a small amount to seed your tank.

John

 

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=80

Is a great place to find a reef club in the states. I see at least 2 for Arizona. My club is a great help to me, $20 a year is well worth it for me. TONS of trading going down.

 

That's a good idea, but the clubs meet when I'm at work, but maybe I can take a day off some time to meet some people, might be able to make some contacts through the forum. Maybe somebody will trade frags for homebrew!

 

Just post in they're forum over on RC, you'll get plenty of response, regardless of you being a member (or at least thats how our clubs work like around here). People love to trade. I think its in all our blood.

 

If it's anything like where I live, you will be able to stock your whole tank trading good home brew

John

 

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The judges seem to like it. [smiley=beer2.gif]
The peeps I work with went through 5 kegs at a party we threw 2 years in a row! I guess I better get to brewing!
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