what are we not testing for?

So I have a situation where my flame angel died about 2 days ago and disappeared. I found what was left of him today and removed from the tank. There was no elevation at all in ammonia/nitrite/nitrate. However, my other fish were obviously stressed by something, as both my hippo and yellow tang developed nasty cases of ich since then. I am thinking that I will finally have to succumb and move all my fish to QT for 8 wks

Anyway, my question is that if all my nitrogen tests were negative, there must be something else noxious from the decomposition of the fish that stressed my other fish. Maybe a sulfur compound? I just wonder if there is something else we should be testing for on a regular basis. I have read too many posts on this site of un-explained fish deaths.....any ideas?

 

is the tank grounded

 

what kind of water u use?
have u tested for copper?
what is your Ph and alk at?

 

Grounded tanks, whether you believe it or not is NOT for the fish's safety as much as ours, we are the ones who will complete the ground and get fried if something were to happen not the fish, they are like birds on a power line....

What is your salinity?
What is the temp?
What test kits did you use and how long have they been OPEN?

My guess is the flame was a carrier of the ick, got stressed upon transport and acclimation. The other fish, both being tangs and ick magnets esp the hepatus, got the ick first....
Your best bet in my opinion, is to do one of three things... Treat the tank with reef safe meds after a couple large 35%> water changes, just do large water changes everyother or everythird day coupled with heavy feeding and the addition of garlic, or take all fish out of DT add to LARGE QT tank, copper them for a week, then after ick is clear, and copper is removed from QT, add a cup or so of your QT water into the QT everyday for at least 4 weeks.

Like I have stated before ick will NOT die out with the abscense of fish, it will go DORMANT and most likely reinfect your fish once you add them...

Also do you have a QT large enough to hold all these fish?

 

Copper would affect the corals more so than the fish, and if anything it would PREVENT ick not cause it....

Also pH and alk, while good to test for would doubtfully cause and ick breakout nor the death of the flame...

Unfortunately flames quality have been down south over the last couple years....

 

Fish death can be an elusive thing to determine. Most fish we purchase have no real indicator(s) to establish how old they are. Pygmy Angels are one of those fish. Some, like the Lemon Peel are distinguishable (age wise) by markings such as the Blue Ring around their eye but many species do have such obvious markings. Size too is no indicator of age as many believe. Most fish reach a certain size and remain that size for years, knowing where that fish is in relation to its' life span can not be distinguished. On the environment side (your tank) there can be an innumerable combination of events that may lead to the death of a fish. Heat, oxygen loss, tank contamination, low Alkalinity, low PH and toxins from coral, not to mention the myriad of diseases (visible and invisible) that can compromise the health of the fish.
Employing products such as Marine-Max to bolster the fishes immune system is a practice I encourage to give the fish a fighting chance in their "closed" system that can be fraught with any combination of the things I have stated. i am not a fan of you QTing all the fish now and stressing them. I prefer the natural approach of strengthening the fishes immune system. Keep a check on Alkalinity, PH and temp on a regular basis and if you house coral, Magnesium, Calcium, Strontium/Molybdenum and SG must be maintained at the proper levels as to not stress the coral and prompt them to release toxins due to the stress.

 

Jed, what exactly would alk and pH have to do as far as parasites on a fish?
Also while I agree that the QT isn't a great option, it is AN option if one so chooses and needs to be stressed that QTing ONE fish ISN'T going to help as the others will most likely reinfect the fish that was in QT once it is returned to the DT.

Also, not sure if you are up on current research but Strontium and Molybdenum?
Besides what a company CLAIMS they do and WHY they are needed in your tank, what purpose do they serve? Do you know what either of these elements do or WHY they are needed in a tank?

Current research proves that Sr is a waste to add at best or in most causes a hinderance to coral growth as most SPS will have to shunt it out of their systems causing more work for the coral and causing a growth stunted specimen.

Back on track, I would say that most centropyge angels quality has gone down over the last few years. Couple that with a fish that probably picked up a case of ick along the way leads to a poor situation. As far as age is concerned, fish are increasingly caught younger and younger due to overfishing, and considering many of these angels will live 10+ years, I would rule our old age as a cause of death...

 

All of these are great points/questions. Here are my water parameters (and they have been stable for the last 4 months)

pH 8.2
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
phosphate 0-0.2
temperature - ranges 78-81 F (depends whether lights are on or not)
alkalinity - 5 mEq/L
calcium - 400
salinity - 1.025

I use the API test kit, and have had it for about 4 months. I do have a grounding probe. My water is RO/DI water, and I use Instant Ocean salt. The only additives I have added are the Seachem Reef Trace for calcium/magnesium/strontium (very little added), and Seachem's vitamins (I forget the product name).

My hippo tang has been getting white spots on and off for the past 3 weeks, although he is eating well. My yellow never got them before yesterday. Both are still eating well. I have tried Ruby Reef's "Kich Ich" product for the past 2 wks - don't notice any improvement. I have also done water changes (about 20% per week for the past 2 weeks). Don't know what else to try to get rid of the ich, other than the QT with copper.

 

"Don't know what else to try to get rid of the ich, other than the QT with copper".

I gave you one...Marine-Max.

 

Frag, refrain from tearing down what others post. If you disagree, fine. Most things we discuss are subjective, just post what you want the person to know.

FYI;Why is strontium required?
Strontium is probably important for accelerating coral and calcareous algae growth.

NSW (Natural Sea Water) contains approx. 7 - 9 mg/L strontium. This strontium is associated (”chelated”) with sulfate.

Since the growth of corals and calcareous algae goes hand in hand with strontium and calcium depletion, depletion of calcium (which is very easily measurable) usually means depletion of strontium as well.

About Natural Strontium
Strontium supplements should be designed in such a way that a too low or a too high strontium concentration is avoided.

With this supplement we have reached this aim with an easy-to-use formulation.

Initial strontium concentration can easily be maintained when dosing the same amount as our Coral Calcium. This reduces the need for a strontium measurement.

This supplement contains predominantly strontium sulfate together with some other ingredients to avoid an ionic imbalance. This sulfate form is significantly more effective and less toxic than the commonly used strontium chloride. Furthermore strontium is present in natural sea water as the sulfate just like this supplement!

Also, all ingredients are of a pharmaceutical quality or even better. This ensures that no unwanted elements are added to your valuable aquarium.

Some other requirements
The use of Coral Calcium as a calcium supplement is highly advised. In fact this Natural Strontium and Coral Calcium are designed to be used together for excellent results.

See? There are those who accept this, if you don't, fine. Ph and Alk and parasites? Who linked that? You did, I guess. Those, if off will stress the fish. Really, trying to purport yourself as a guru or something does not help those seeking our advice. Stick to helping not detracting.